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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #161

    Jan 18, 2020, 09:13 AM
    Maybe I should have stipulated I meant WS and good old boys were a PART of conservative base. Would that have made a difference in your understanding?
    It would have changed your meaning, and so would have changed my understanding.

    I have seen no violent activity initiated or engaged by them and peaceful protests seem to be all they have ever done. You got something different than peaceful protests, march's and demonstrations, please share that.
    If the quote from Wiki I posted above is not enough for you, then you have a mind that cannot be changed by any amount of truth. That BLM stokes violence is plainly true. Here's your link. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/...ring-violence/

    Race based maybe, but you will have to show where they promote black superiority and black nationalism to even start equating them with the WS movement with a history of violence death and hate.
    OK. Let's see. They call themselves "The NATION of Islam", and their stated goals are to improve the spiritual, mental, social, and economic condition of African Americans in the United States. So you really don't think that's a nationalist movement and race based? Additionally, the NAACP exists for the "Advancement of Colored People", so do you think they are race based?

    I'm not saying these organizations are entirely bad or that they are filled with violent people, but they are all race-based and much, much larger than the WS groups of which you are critical.

    Let me ask a question. Would you be opposed to the WS or WN groups if they were completely non-violent?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #162

    Jan 18, 2020, 12:51 PM
    Oh No! Say it ain't true! You actually, or at least the writer of the article, conflates the actions of a sick loony opportunist with the BLM march in Dallas? We watched it on TV and it went without any violence until the loon showed up and even the opposition protesters with guns ran to get out of the way of cops doing their job, least they be mistaken for a shooter. Fact of the matter is from me and the local reporting the Dallas police did an EXCELLENT job of not just performing in a crisis, but handling the aftermath by going directly to the communities as they have been known to do and with good results.

    So for those reasons I must reject the narrative of your article as non fact based, and a deceptive piece of crap to tie BLM to events which they have nothing to do with and in this particular case there are enough pictures of friendly interactions with the cops and marchers to debunk any animosity associated with the events of that day. Further JL, I have no doubt police are afraid now a days and it should be noted that the root cause of that fear is the backlash associated with cops shooting a black unarmed citizen, which happens all to often today, so if cops are scared imagine if you will, how scared a black citizen would be with any interactions of the cops. It should surprise no. one that race based movements have risen and grown at a time when many oppressed people are still oppressed. Should they suffer in silence and turn the other cheek?

    WS has every right to express their views and we all have a right to oppose them, but I think we all should oppose the violence that some prefer. I have to thank you at this point for being willing to discuss this rather than dismiss it and sweep the facts under a rug, and we may not agree, but it's always a good sign that we can talk about it. My very sincere thanks my friend.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #163

    Jan 18, 2020, 03:18 PM
    Tal, if you honestly believe that BLM had nothing to do with the violence in Ferguson, and if you can convince one other person of that, then two people on the earth will have that belief.

    Yes, I'm glad we can have these discussions. I think we would be much better off in this country without both the WS and WN groups, and also without groups like BLM, NAACP, and SCLC. They are all, in the end, divisive and engender bitterness which leads to violence.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #164

    Jan 18, 2020, 05:25 PM
    Given the size and rate of growth of BLM then I won't be that lonely at all, and the movement has expanded to a few other cultures and races to acheive a consideration of international status. Wonder if the groups you oppose would be so venerable and popular if minorities and others didn't think they were needed. I fail to see how a fight for equality, and civil rights is divisive in the first place. Or engender bitterness, or lead to violence.

    What and who could be against equality and civil rights?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #165

    Jan 18, 2020, 05:53 PM
    What and who could be against equality and civil rights?
    Now that is a good question, tell me have you stopped beating your wife yet or flogging your donkey?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #166

    Jan 18, 2020, 06:50 PM
    What and who could be against equality and civil rights?
    That was true of civil rights groups fifty years ago. It is no longer the case. The battle has been won, so these groups have changed to trying to convince minorities that they are victims and should search for those who will feel sorry for them. As I've said before, I generally don't feel sorry for any person, sound in mind and body, who has been blessed of God to live in this land of enormous opportunity. The message should be, "Get a good education, get married and raise children (in that order), and learn how to handle money." But I don't expect to hear that since it would entail the listeners learning how to exercise self-discipline, and that is a much less popular message than the victim message. It's always easier and more fun to blame someone else. That's why so many people despise Dr. Ben Carson. He puts the lie to this victim approach.
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #167

    Jan 18, 2020, 07:17 PM
    Effectively, the "Civil Rights" bunch, today, has become and industry. Their main goal is to see who they can set up and who they can sue....remember the charlatan the Rev. Al Sharpton? Ooh! What a POS! A bunch of them are mere thugs. Its not only Caucasians that are spiked with slime balls...all races have them.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #168

    Jan 18, 2020, 07:50 PM
    LOL, the dufus won barely by convincing the right that someone else was taking your stuff, and how it was the liberal left. You bought it and now we are all screwed, because he held the door open for him and his buddies to take the money and run, leaving you sitting there waiting for the crumbs to trickle down. All we will have to show from this administration is the bill for the party they had. That's why the civil rights movement is still growing and expanding, despite the right wing noise machines disinformation and conspiracy theories. In blocking the liberal cause you block your own protection against oppression and the exploitation of the oligarchs, who manipulate the money and strangle the circulation of wealth.

    As the trend toward conservative power increases and bring the nationalistic protectionism with it, the chances for real solutions that work for everybody shrinks too. What do you conservatives care as long as you THINK it's working for you!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #169

    Jan 18, 2020, 08:23 PM
    As the trend toward conservative power increases and bring the nationalistic protectionism with it, the chances for real solutions that work for everybody shrinks too. What do you conservatives care as long as you THINK it's working for you!
    Yeah. You are so right. I mean, this record setting low unemployment, constant economic growth, growth in manufacturing jobs that makes Obama look silly, energy independence, growth in wages, and profitable trade deals with China is all so bad that I don't see how we will survive. Oh for the wonderful days of tepid, timid economic growth with Obama, and all of those wonderful "real solutions" that made us so much more...ordinary.

    Your comment was so strange that I can only assume you were joking.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #170

    Jan 19, 2020, 08:35 AM
    Yup low unemployment with slow wage growth certainly helps consumers the real driver of the economy, a barely break even China deal, and the farmer bailout that rivals the bank bailout except without the ROI, has you pretty giddy doesn't it? Fascinating you have to exaggerate the dufus accomplishments and ignore his wrong doings, even while you admit to his big mouth. Consistent though with elevating anything the minorities do to further there struggle for equality, as a race based menace equal to WS and WN.

    You aren't joking either are you?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #171

    Jan 19, 2020, 08:47 AM
    Only someone deeply infected with TDS would view this economy as a negative. The really hilarious thing is that you brag about Obama's economy despite the fact that it did not measure up in any way to what we have now, and yet you refuse to give Trump credit for what we have now. TDS pure and simple. You should get some help for that. Maybe there's a pill you can take.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #172

    Jan 19, 2020, 09:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Only someone deeply infected with TDS would view this economy as a negative. The really hilarious thing is that you brag about Obama's economy despite the fact that it did not measure up in any way to what we have now, and yet you refuse to give Trump credit for what we have now. TDS pure and simple. You should get some help for that. Maybe there's a pill you can take.
    How long have you suffered from liberal derangement disorder? It may be to late for a cure sad to say. You may have to live forever with holding your nose. At least we liberals have a remedy for our disorder, get rid of the dufus and his sycophants. Works better than a pill and easier to swallow.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #173

    Jan 19, 2020, 01:10 PM
    If you don't like this economy, you must have been in terrible depression with Obama. His economy, by any measure, was weaker than what we have now. To have a dynamic, booming economy like we have now coupled with low inflation is amazing. Only a TDS infected person would complain. If Obama was still pres, you would be singing his praises.
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #174

    Jan 19, 2020, 07:35 PM
    Let's face it: Trump is the PRESIDENT OF ECONOMY! He is the boldest President and the President with the deepest understanding of economy that we have ever had in these United States.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,890, Reputation: 5430
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    #175

    Jan 19, 2020, 09:12 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Let's face it: Trump is the PRESIDENT OF ECONOMY! He is the boldest President and the President with the deepest understanding of economy that we have ever had in these United States.
    Get real! Obama started in a deep hole (thanks to the great recession caused under the George W. Bush presidency) while tRump had a booming economy to start with (thanks Obama).
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #176

    Jan 20, 2020, 05:34 AM
    Obama left a "booming economy"? I think you don't understand what a booming economy is. Obama had the least robust economic recovery from a recession in a hundred years. Reagan faced more difficult economic circumstances than Obama, but he really did end up with a booming economy. Obama doubled the national debt and still only had moderate economic growth at best.

    https://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/...dp-780x439.jpg
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #177

    Jan 20, 2020, 07:53 AM
    LOL, your source doesn't support your booming economy because it stops in 2016. Got anything more recent by which we can compare and verify what your premise is? Like this?

    Soaring rhetoric and spin mean nothing when you crunch the actual data, which reflects the dufus juicing the economy with tax cuts which have already made their way through this BOOMING economy, but stepped all over it with sanctions and trade wars which Americans bore the brunt of and that's with the bailouts to farmers which were as much as the banks got at a decent interest no less, which returned as a profit. The dufus bailouts are but a temporary bailout with no hope of an ROI even approaching the ones the banks had, and even the Phase I agreement with China is but a start to regaining already LOST revenue. If you're counting on future agreements making up for those revenues lost and losing now, nice idea but isn't that like counting your chickens before they hatch, in the face of SLOW wage growth, and rising prices?

    Even record unemployment figures don't make up for real spending by consumers which are juiced by the Nov/Dec holiday seasons, peak earning time for retailers and manufacturers traditionally, but as consumer pay those holiday debts we always see a slowdown and adjustments to those great numbers. Obama's economy was slow, steady, and very healthy for business and consumers as states raised their wage minimums over a period of 3 or so years which would normally bode well for consumer spending if indeed every state had followed suit forcing businesses to follow nation wide, but even that won't address the challenges of those states and regions hit hardest by the recession and who have not had the benefit of the BOOMING economy and well may not in the future.

    The dufus economy BOOMS for some and not others and he and the congress cannot escape that fact no matter how much spin the put on it and no matter how much the denigrate the previous presidents efforts. The congress still must act in real time and it's ticking away as we speak. You want a REAL boom? Circulate more money that has a return on interest. Private sector/Government investment is the best long term investment that theirs is and a nickel on every dollar over a million is just the vehicle for starting that investment.

    Sound like an infrastructure bill to you?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #178

    Jan 20, 2020, 03:29 PM
    LOL, your source doesn't support your booming economy because it stops in 2016. Got anything more recent by which we can compare and verify what your premise is? Like this?
    OK. Let's see. Trump has had four quarters of GDP growth above 3%. How many did your hero have?

    As to rest of your rant, I will just repeat the obvious. Record low unemployment, energy independence, economic growth much better than under Obama, growth in manufacturing jobs which puts Obama's numbers to shame, and an outstanding trade deal with China. Yeah. Sure makes a fella long for the good ole days of the "limping along" Obama economy.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,213, Reputation: 10853
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    #179

    Jan 20, 2020, 05:13 PM
    This is to easy!

    Verdict: True
    Gross domestic product (GDP), the total value of goods and services produced in the U.S., never rose 3 percent annually under Obama, although there were eight separate quarters where GDP grew by more than 3 percent.
    Record low unemployment, One point better than Obama's

    energy independence, Policies started before the dufus.

    economic growth much better than under Obama, those pesky facts again.

    growth in manufacturing jobs which puts Obama's numbers to shame, Your best case so far and not by much as another good trend the dufus inherited.

    and an outstanding trade deal with China The ink is still wet but already it's NOT close to where we started.



    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,296, Reputation: 154
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    #180

    Jan 20, 2020, 06:15 PM
    Record low unemployment, One point better than Obama's
    What part of the word "record" do you not understand?

    energy independence, Policies started before the dufus.
    Do you remember the Keystone pipeline that Obama REFUSED to build that have gotten us here much faster?

    economic growth much better than under Obama, those pesky facts again.
    So you link to the Wash Post which requires a sub to view. Really?

    growth in manufacturing jobs which puts Obama's numbers to shame, Your best case so far and not by much as another good trend the dufus inherited.
    You are stubborn to facts. Remember? The first 21 months of the Trump admin was TEN TIMES better than last 21 months of Obama. Remember? And that's what you call a good trend???

    and an outstanding trade deal with China The ink is still wet but already it's NOT close to where we started.
    Correct. It is ahead of where we started. Obama chose to sit on his arse rather than try and confront the Chinese. Coward.

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