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    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #1

    Oct 11, 2019, 04:47 PM
    Now what?
    1930s-1970s. A young married woman is expecting her first baby. Early in the pregnancy, miscarriage becomes a good possibility. Over the next months, the OB prescribes drugs, mostly containing estrogen, to prevent a miscarriage and a premature delivery.

    The woman finally gives birth. The baby has both male and female reproductive systems with a mishmash of internal and external structures. Dad wants a son. Mom wants a daughter.

    Now what?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #2

    Oct 11, 2019, 04:55 PM
    common sense should prevail, allow the baby to develop, Do you think there might have been a reason for miscarriage? is this a hypothetical developed so liberals should debate their theology of man's supremacy
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #3

    Oct 11, 2019, 05:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    common sense should prevail, allow the baby to develop, Do you think there might have been a reason for miscarriage? is this a hypothetical developed so liberals should debate their theology of man's supremacy
    No hypothetical. This has happened thousands of times since the 1930s into the 1970s. The reason for a miscarriage would have been biological.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,299, Reputation: 5645
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    #4

    Oct 11, 2019, 05:24 PM
    They won’t prescribe estrogen to maintain a pregnancy, but rather progesterone is what is used to continue a pregnancy.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #5

    Oct 11, 2019, 05:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    They won’t prescribe estrogen to maintain a pregnancy, but rather progesterone is what is used to continue a pregnancy.
    They did back then. DES. I added dates to the OP.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,299, Reputation: 5645
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    #6

    Oct 11, 2019, 06:24 PM
    Baby cannot have both internal and external complete male AND female reproductive anatomy/organs.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #7

    Oct 11, 2019, 06:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    Baby cannot have both internal and external complete male AND female reproductive anatomy/organs.
    Yes, Baby can! Read up on what DES has done. People in their late 40s and older have lived with this situation since birth.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,299, Reputation: 5645
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    #8

    Oct 11, 2019, 08:25 PM
    One cannot have complete developed penis and vagina. The genitals are typically ambiguous. Testicles or ovaries, one or the other, not both.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #9

    Oct 11, 2019, 08:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by J_9 View Post
    One cannot have complete developed penis and vagina. The genitals are typically ambiguous. Testicles or ovaries, one or the other, not both.
    I have two friends who disagree with you. It happened to them.
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    #10

    Oct 11, 2019, 10:59 PM
    It is virtually impossible to have testicles AND ovaries. During development we grown gonads, only one set. During a hormone spurt those gonads either become ovaries or testicles.

    I have delivered babies that had what appeared to be a vagina and a penis. Notice that I said appeared. What appeared to be vaginal lips turned out to be an undeveloped scrotum. This day and time genetic chromosomal testing is done to help determine if the infant has xx or XX chromosomes to help the parents decide where they want to go with the child as far as surgery and sexuality go.

    https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/di...strol-syndrome
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #11

    Oct 12, 2019, 04:48 AM
    DNA should determine WHAT you are: Individuals can run around talking about being "Transgendered" all they want to but their DNA knows the real story: NOT ONE of these individuals who claim to be TRANSSEXUAL are both Male AND Female: They are one or the other: Not one of these people claiming to be transgendered carry BOTH Female and Male DNA: their DNA is either MALE OR FEMALE, that's it!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,273, Reputation: 10853
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    #12

    Oct 12, 2019, 05:26 AM
    Ain't modern medicine grand! We have the science to be whatever we want to be...if you can afford it. Don't know what they did in the 70's, but a lot of screwed up middle agers are walking arounnd in limbo with both genitalia, and even more suffer from all kinds of sexual related identity issues that they will be judged for by those that suffer nothing.

    I hope those parents get a lot of counseling WG, but we won't know for a decade or so what the right thing to do was. Some say wait and see, some say it's up to the parents during infancy. Either way it's a big deal and a hard choice, both for parents and adults and their is still that question of affording to do what you feel is right for you as an adult.

    For sure condemnation isn't the answer, for whatever choices people make, is it? Just spend the money on a unisex bathroom. This does happen in nature with animals all the time but they seem to work it out with no complaints. Why can't humans?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,350, Reputation: 154
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    #13

    Oct 12, 2019, 12:12 PM
    For sure condemnation isn't the answer, for whatever choices people make, is it? Just spend the money on a unisex bathroom.
    Why are liberals always in favor of someone else spending money on something? Maybe people should go to the restroom of their biological gender like has been done for the past several thousand years.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 524, Reputation: 55
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    #14

    Oct 12, 2019, 01:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Why are liberals always in favor of someone else spending money on something?


    Why do you always miss the point?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,350, Reputation: 154
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    #15

    Oct 12, 2019, 02:28 PM
    Why do you always miss the point?
    As the old saying goes, "When you can't win the argument, then attack the person."
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #16

    Oct 12, 2019, 02:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    As the old saying goes, "When you can't win the argument, then attack the person."
    Please respond to the question posed.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,350, Reputation: 154
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    #17

    Oct 12, 2019, 02:52 PM
    Please respond to the question posed.
    It sounds like a really difficult situation to be in. J_9 seems to be the med expert, so I'm going with him/her until I see a reason not to. But as you well know, questions on this board tend to morph into other areas.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,920, Reputation: 5430
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    #18

    Oct 12, 2019, 03:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It sounds like a really difficult situation to be in. J_9 seems to be the med expert, so I'm going with him/her until I see a reason not to. But as you well know, questions on this board tend to morph into other areas.
    J_9 apparently isn't familiar with the now-banned anti-miscarriage DES solution of earlier decades.

    If your child was born with a combination of male and female organs, what would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    DNA should determine WHAT you are: Individuals can run around talking about being "Transgendered" all they want to but their DNA knows the real story: NOT ONE of these individuals who claim to be TRANSSEXUAL are both Male AND Female: They are one or the other: Not one of these people claiming to be transgendered carry BOTH Female and Male DNA: their DNA is either MALE OR FEMALE, that's it!
    This isn't a "transgendered" situation. So if the child has female DNA but mostly male internal and external organs, then what?
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #19

    Oct 12, 2019, 06:17 PM
    W.G.: When I was growing up on the farm, we sometimes encountered animals that had this abnormalities.....the word I heard used to describe them was they the animal was a Morphodite…..it was considered a bad sign.....the older generation would usually euthanize them.....I am not suggesting this is what we should do to human but it certainly was the common thing to do with animals.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,273, Reputation: 10853
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    #20

    Oct 12, 2019, 06:17 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    If your child was born with a combination of male and female organs, what would you do?


    This isn't a "transgendered" situation. So if the child has female DNA but mostly male internal and external organs, then what?
    I consulted my wife WG, and her response is you love your child no matter what the issue is and guide them with love and support for whatever they need. So I guess we wait and see and act accordingly. Pretty much like you would do any child.

    I've know a few transgender, (Fully transitioned) and transsexual people, and hermaphrodites' in my time and while they may be different they are humans and if individual unisex bathrooms like we all have at home is a easy solution to both safety and privacy then it's well worth the expense, as these individuals get what they need to be accepted as humans, and we all get privacy. Might not help the lines in schools or any public venue, and is just adding more bathrooms.

    An easy fix for human dignity. Nothing to do with ideology, or politics. Then again we are still politicizing gay people and their rights so maybe the bathroom idea is a push at this time. We're running out of closets for sure though.

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