[NowWhat]

Hello All,
I have a 17 month old lab - american bulldog mix. He's a good dog - for the most part.
He has a white and yellow coat. His skin is spotted. He has black or dark spots on his skin. About two weeks ago I noticed that some of his fur is starting to thin. It kind of looks as if he had a section shaved and it is starting to grow back. But - that didn't happen. It is thining on one of the dark spots so it is more noticeable.

It doesn't seem to bother him and it isn't spreading - should I worry? Could it be mange?
Thanks

[colebabe27]

Has he been drinking a lot of water and going to the bathroom a lot? What is his appetite like and his behavior? I don't know how common it is in younger dogs, but my 11 year old Golden had Cushing's disease. One of the main characteristics is thinning hair. The testing and treatment for this can be expensive, that's why I asked if you've seen any other changes.

[NowWhat]

His appetite comes and goes. It always has. Currently he is eating fine. He drinks plenty of fluid - but not from his water bowl. He prefers to drink from the toilet or our sump pump crock - I have no idea why.
He doesn't scratch himself. We have him on food made for skin and coat - because he had a battle with dry skin over last summer. But, with the food - that fixed itself.
As far as the bathroom - no more than normal. I take him out to pee once every couple of hours. He poops 2x a day.
Behavior - he is a normal puppy. He sleeps when it is just me and him, but plays most of the other time - if someone else is home. He is alert to his surroundings.
Like I said, pretty normal.

[labman]

If you are feeding a decent chow and little else, brushing regularly, seldom if ever bathing the dog, using an effective flea remedy, and it still has problems, it needs to see the vet. I doubt your vet will appreciate being told what somebody else's dog had.

[labman]

Poor appetite often comes from over feeding. See the sticky on ''My dog won't eat.'', https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/i...tml#post254171

[NowWhat]

He weighs about 70 pounds - so he gets between 3 and 4 cups of food a day. Is that overfeeding?
When I say his appetite comes and goes - he will eat when he wants to - not when I want him to. So, I leave his bowl out so he can eat at his will.
But on average - he eats what I listed above on a daily basis.

[labman]

That doesn't sound like too much, but only by checking his ribs following the link in the sticky can you be sure.

[colebabe27]

I wasn't saying that she should tell her vet what my dog had. That's why I asked about his other habits. I was by no means giving a diagnosis. Dog's who have Cushing's #1 lose their hair or it gets very thin, have an aggressive appetite, consume large amounts of water, and urinate often (and as the disease progresses, start to urinate in the house). My dog started consuming large amounts of water in one sitting and would dunk his head into the bowl. I thought that this was just out of habit. We gave him his allotted amount of food twice a day and never gave him people food. This is probably why we saw no change in appetite because he never had full access to his food all the time. Then he started to have accidents in the house at night. I had to set an alarm and get up with him because he was so big that it was a large amount of urine. I had never heard of this disease until I did a lot of research, even when we took him to the first vet they thought it was just a kidney infection. This was in November. By January, he stopped eating and that's when I noticed the hair getting thinner. (He was a very thick coated Golden with very long feathers.) Unfortunately when he stopped eating the doc told us to try anything (we had gotten to that point) and we gave him the dog food that was under the recall. I don't know if that was the major reason for him going downhill so fast, but within a week or so he had lost 10 pounds and we had to force feed him through a syringe. He began to throw that up and we knew we couldn't do anything else. We don't know if Cushing's was the main problem, which I assume there were some underlying problems; he was 11 years old. This is why I asked about other symptoms. If I was educated on this possibility then we might have been able to treat him with success. I'm sorry for "telling you" what my dog had.:confused:

[NowWhat]

Hey, don't apologize to me. I had a cat once that died of cancer - had I known certain things earlier - she might still be with us. So please, don't apologize. I appreciate your post.

By you saying "was" I am guessing he is no longer with you. I am sorry for your loss.

[NowWhat]

labman, I was just re-reading your sticky. I must of missed the part about the ribs. My dogs ribs show a little. Not to a point that you would think he is underfed - but they do show. He is a very muscular dog. Should I up his food amount based on what I can see of his ribs? I don't think he will eat it though.
He has been to the vet (before his thinning hair) and they say he is healthy. And he seems healthy. I just don't want him to get sick because I missed something.

[labman]

Yeah, just enough the ribs disappear as long as he eats it. There are some dogs that won't. That is much more common in Shepherds than Labs.

[NowWhat]

Let me ask you this - is table food really terrible for dogs? I hate to throw food away and he loves to get scraps. I make sure I put it in his bowl so he won't beg.
It is mostly meat or veggies.

[labman]

I saw that yesterday, but got distracted from answering. Dogs' nutritional needs are well known. Most modern dog chows are carefully formulated to give dogs the complete and balanced nutrition they need. Replacing much of the dog's chow with table scraps can mess up the careful balance the dog needs. It is better for you and the dog to cook just what you need, and feed the dog the dog chow it needs.

[NowWhat]

Okay. He doesn't get much in the ways of table scraps - but he gets some.
Since you seem well versed in all things dog - can you tell me if there is a difference in dog foods? We have tried mid-grade, low grade and currently using (and happy with) a high-grade food.
But, when all of that food recall came up - I noticed that a lot of these are made in the same plant. So is there really a difference?

[labman]

Oh, what a can of worms. Many people claim their dog does better on this food or that food. Of course many of the more expensive chows are distributed by small part time distributors. I suspect many of the testimonials about chows come from people selling them. There are others that firmly believe if something is more expensive, it just has to be better. It is true that you don't want to know a lot of what goes into most dog chows. I would rather look at the outcome of feeding them.

I put a lot of faith in what the dog guide school tells me. They have a tremendous amount of information available to them. I have talked with their vets. I have followed many working dogs through their careers. I have gone drinking with staff members. They are in a far better position to know what really is best for dogs, and have every incentive to see to it that those caring for their dogs are giving them good care. When I started raising puppies in 1992, they were asking us to feed the plain old corn based Purina. The dogs seemed to be doing fine. After a few years, they did upgrade to Pro Plan chicken and rice. I am not sure the dogs are doing that much better on it than the cheaper stuff. I am sure it is much easier to clean up. That is a huge factor if you are blind and must cleanup after your dog and carry the stools away to an acceptable place to dispose of them. The school is tolerant of those choosing to feed something else. If you are raising a puppy and you want to feed it what you have always feed your other dogs, fine. You are expected to let them know what you are feeding. I don't know that anybody has ever fed Old Roy, or if so, if the school would object.

I know what a number of other programs are feeding too, other similar chows, Iams or Eukanuba.

The school even warns us away from premium chows, ''Stay away from premium foods and special diets like lamb and rice or turkey and barley.'' Since the new manual with that statement came out, I haven't gotten the right person drunk to find out if there is more to that than just wanting them as a fall back position if a dog develops an allergy to chicken and rice. The fewer sources of protein a dog eats when it is young, the easier it is to work around it if it ever develops allergies. Perhaps another good reason to avoid table scraps.

I have asked people advocating the more expensive diets, to direct me to a study showing how dogs eating them fare compared to dogs eating cheaper diets. Nobody has ever done it. My son got a dog last year. He is feeding it Purina because he remembers our dogs doing fine on it when he was living at home. I am not sure I would go so far as to trust my dog to Old Roy or whatever Aldi's sells, but I see no reason to buy the expensive stuff either.

[NowWhat]

You know, I tried Purina for my dog - and his skin was so terribly dry, I would find him on his back - on our gravel driveway - going back and forth trying to get relief.
I have tried Iams and it gave him gas, I tried a holistic brand and the gas got way worse and then we are on Nutro now and it is Lamb and rice for skin and coat. (Purina was after the holistic)
I have tried to be aware of what goes in the food i.e. not a lot of corn fillers and stuff like that. I also know that lips and butt holes go in the food too (Please pardon the expression if it offends you)
I just always wondered if there was truly a difference in the brands.

Now, I just have to figure out why he has a thinning patch on his coat.

[RubyPitbull]

NowWhat, if the Nutro with lamb and rice seems to be working for your dog, stick with it. It is considered to be a good food. You have done the right thing by trying to find the right food that is a good fit for your dog if others did not seem to work.

Regarding the thinning coat, you really need to speak with your vet. I don't like playing guessing games with this kind of stuff. But, since he has American Bull Dog in him, the dry skin and thinning coat can be caused from the lack of humidity during the winter (dry skin) and possibly alopecia (thinning hair). During the wintertime, the shortened daylight (lack of sunlight) causes this reaction (alopecia) in some dogs. Bull dogs are among the breeds that this can occur in. Only if your vet rules out mange, among other possibilities, and just cannot explain the loss of fur, and suggests steroids as a possible course of treatment, please defer that. I know some vets will suggest that and I hate the thought of doing it if avoidable. The side effects to steroids can be quite a problem. So, if this happens, wait it out and see if during the summer, the hair grows back. It won't do him any harm not to be given that particular medication, and he seems to be fine in every other respect. As far as the dry skin, try giving him a tablespoon of olive oil or safflower oil mixed in with his food once a day. See if, over time, that doesn't do the trick. If he doesn't like the taste, you can put it in a little chicken broth, not a lot. Just enough to get him to lap it up. If you are hesitant, ask the vet about it.

Keep us posted on what happens.

[NowWhat]

I guess when I think of Mange, I think that he would be losing spots all over and be itchy.
This is just one spot and rather large, but he isn't bothered at all by it. Even when I pet him there.
I have taken him to the vet - before this started and they said he looked healthy. Could something like this just develop overnight?

[RubyPitbull]

Nowwhat, I will be offline for a few days but saw your response. It is one of those things that we don't notice until all of a sudden the hair is gone. My dog suffers from it and from dry skin in the winter. I watch all winter for the alopecia problem and don't see anything until, one day BOOM. :) I start to notice it in March. She now has a couple of visible bald patches. But, by mid summer, it always fills in. Speak to your vet about it. See what he/she says. It was just a thought that came to my mind that your guy is experiencing what my dog goes through. I did a lot of research on it when it was diagnosed. The vet immediately wanted to put her on steroids. When I asked about side effects, there were a ton. I decided that if what she told me was correct, then when the days got longer, it would stand to reason the hair would grow back. It did. I would rather put a coat on her than put her on medication unnecessarily. :)

[labman]

For all the controversy over dog chows, many people concede the point if your dogs seems to be doing fine on what it is eating, stick with it. One of the reasons I keep old Aster on Pro Plan is that she is doing OK on it. She went through some problems with pancreatis about 6 years ago. She was eventually put back on it and was mostly OK. As she ages, I keep considering switching to a senior formula. She has really slowed down in the last year.

Some dogs do need a little more oil that is in some dog chows. I usually suggest a little liquid cooking oil. It is usually soy or corn oil, both of which have plenty of the linoleic acid dogs need.

As long as Nutro is working and the cost isn't a burden, I would stick to it. I think there are a number of lower priced chows that your dog would do fine on.

As for things made in the same factory being the same, I can give an unqualified, firm maybe. Every thing is made to a spec. I know of numerous instances of the identical product going in different boxes. Other times product labeled the same might vary depending which customer it was going to. The wire and cable manufacturer I once worked for sold 500' coils of wire to the electrical supply houses under one brand, and 50' coils to the hardware trade. The wire all had a UL code on it, but no brand name. They even made 9 good 50' coils out of a bad 500' coil.