[InSearchOfAnswers]

This question is a bit convoluted, but Im confused and really glad to have found this site. I need objective, frank answers about a few issues Im having. All feedback is really appreciated.

Background: We are both in our mid/late 20s. We love each other. Dating for over 1 year, have discussed marriage.

My GF is a daterape victim. She was a virgin - a Fr in college - seeing this guy, one night he forced himself on her and it happened. She told me this during the 1st month we started seeing each other. We both love each other, but I can't wrap my head around the whole 'date rape' concept... how could she have 'let this happen' - I know that sounds judgemental to a degree, and I'm very sensitive to the issue, so I don't want to blame her (of course) but my mentality, my point of view, is that if you really don't want it there's a number of things (kicking, screaming) that could prevent it. She has told me its hard for me to get in the mindset of a scared virgin that didn't react - she felt paralyzed. After this she went into a spiral of self-worthlessness and told me (in confidence) that had a 1 night stand later on that year - she regets it, but felt worthless. This story further bothered me since I could sense some kind of pattern developing... She has told me a semester of therapy helped her work through it.

Also, to complicate the issue, a few of her friends have been date raped. It almost seems like a trend. Again - I don't want to sound insensitive. Maybe I can't grasp this concept since I could never fathom doing that to another human being. I couldn't even get aroused to force myself on someone like that. Its sickening.

I didn't know how to react. Its so foreign to me. Im hear making an effort to understand.

Fast forward aabout 5 years. We meet and hit it off. Begin dating. There's immediate chemistry - we share the same sense of humor and have a blast with each other. We are crazy about each other. She's a beautiful, strong, indepentdent woman that I have a lot of respect for. However, she's almost "too independent" to the point she is harsh (keep in mind this was all in the beginning). She mentioned a few things like "we have sex - we dont make love" "dont get too clingy" "women shold be able to have sex with whomever they want. 'slut' is such a bull word"... stuff like this was a problem for me. It still is. I wish I could physically cut those memories out of my brain.

Im trying to get into her head. To see things from her perspective. Help me with that.
After ~ month 2 I asked her to be my GF. She shyed away, then said 'yes' but only if she didn't have to change her "single myspace status"... she didn't want to hurt her ex hookups feelings (who constantly left messages on her page). It seemed to me that she was more concered with his feeling that mine. That still stings a little.

Same with the 'I Love You' thing a while later. It took her a few days to say it back. That's a big step, I know, and didn't want her to fake it, so I was cool that she took her time. I actually encoruaged it when I initially told her that I loved her.


And another issue is that she keeps in touch with her old flames - boyfriends and guys she hooked up with. She tells me I'm the love of her life (I would do anything for her), but I have asked her - repeatedly - "why keep in contact with these guys?" She sees nothing wrong with this. In college she dated close personal guys friends. Its seems she has a pattern of meeting guys, becoming close, becoming lovers, then transitioning back to friends. I see exes as people who are in my past - they are exes for a reason. It's a sticking point for me (and I hate it. I wish I didn't care about her so much sometimes). My point is recently she has revealed this fact - its like the lines of 'friend' and 'lover' have been repeatedly crossed in her past.

But back to her recent hookups (the guy(s) she was seeing before me) - I know she's been with other guys - I can't change the past. But my perception is that these old flames aren't totally in her past - her past is constantly intertwined with her present. These are the same guys shest deemed unworthy of the 'boyfriend" title, yet she dated (slept with a few, ect ... ).

I have told her a few times her contact with them bothers me - I want it to be "just us" and she thinks Im crazy to find her open lines of communication a problem. The thing that gets me is that there is no empathy from her end - its like she's right, I'm wrong, case closed. Im not insecure in our relationship, but it seems as though she is being apathetic to my feelings. If she came to me with a problem, I would fix it. I love her. It's that simple in my eyes.

I broke it off with the girls I was talking to when I began dating my current GF. I felt that was the right thing to do. I would feel like I am betraying her, and misleading the other girls, if I kept them in my life. Move on. That's my philosophy.

Well today I said I would never give her a ring as long as this problem persisted. I can't see us making that next step when I feel like I'm sharing her (emotionally). I already have the ring picked out - its as simple, elegant, and beautiful as she is. I want to give it to her, but there's a little feeling in my gut that won't let me do it...

Help me out here - am I crazy?

How can I effectively convey that this is a recurring problem that is stagnating our relationship.

Thanks in advance

ISOA

[talaniman]

She knows how you feel, but she feels differently. It is just that simple. You cannot change a person and if that's the way she is, you either respect it and accept it, or leave her alone and move on. After all this time those are your choices. Take your time away from her, and make up your mind. Keep the ring in your pocket.

[RickB]

She shouldn't be talked to all those ex's she can't let go of them if you ask me. I told my girlfriend she's not aloud to chill with the ex;s that want her back or would try to get her back and she respected that. Just took a few months.

[Parajr]

Sometimes when you purchase a car it has an as is sign in the windown. This person seems to have some issues that may be the reslut of her past. Maybe this is just who she was destined to become, but the bottom line is that this is how she is now. She may not be that way forever. It is possible that she could change her mantality on life. I can't say that the way she lives is wright or wrong, but it is not fitting to be in a committed relationship. I would advise you to leave that car where it is and continue shopping, look at another dealership, because this one sounds like a lemon. Rate if this was helpful.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

She knows how you feel, but she feels differently. It is just that simple. You cannot change a person and if thats the way she is, you either respect it and accept it, or leave her alone and move on. After all this time those are your choices. Take your time away from her, and make up your mind. Keep the ring in your pocket.

Thanks for the response, but why? I would think the smart thing to do is compromise - meet in the middle. Apparently you think I should totally cave on this issue and let it slide. If she came to me with a problem, I would immediately try to figure out a solution that suits both of us... I think that's the mature thing to do.

That's just me...

[talaniman]

I have told her a few times her contact with them bothers me - I want it to be "just us" and she thinks Im crazy to find her open lines of communication a problem. The thing that gets me is that there is no empathy from her end - its like shes right, im wrong, case closed. Im not insecure in our relationship, but it seems as though she is being apathetic to my feelings. If she came to me with a problem, I would fix it. I love her. Its that simple in my eyes.

This paragraph led me to believe that she would not budge from her position, and its hard to compromise if she wont negotiate, or at least talk about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, or give us an update.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Thanks Talaniman

I really do appreciate all of your (and eveyone else's) feedback... I just feel Im between a rock and a hard place.

I have questions about how she approached past relationships (some guys appear to me nothing but "F-Buddies") and how she addressed our first phase of our sex life (its "sex, not love" etc)... couple that with the date rape and it confuses me. Plus, as far as I know, she (claims) it not her reaching out, but the other way around.. . however she just perpetuates it and it becomes casual contact (in my mind anyway)...

I feel that if I say 'lose them or lose me' she will view me as controlling and crazy - and that's really not even the issue. I really think the thing that bothers me the most is the lack of action or lack of effort for a solution...


Maybe this is off topic, but is it wrong to think this way: these other guys were worthy of sex and thats it - thats all she used them for, however, since im 'special' she wanted to hold off on the physical (initially) and get to know each other better ... but the others were good enough to have sex with early on ... I hate that I think this way, but that bothers me. it give me the impression sometimes that im being used ... its weird, maybe i can't fully explain it correctly


This forum is helpful. Thanks to all for listening

[talaniman]

It goes back to accepting someone for who they are, and even though I can appreciate your feelings and need to work it out, that does not appear to be what's happening here. Don't let your frustrations blind you to the fact she is not budging for you, so how special can you be to her? To see the forest, you must back off, until you can see more than just the trees. In other words, see a bigger picture.

[maxim]

I agree with some of the replys... but; I was raped once ( no drugs involved ). Let me tell you that it is NO way for a girl to loose her virginity... it gives a woman a whole new out look when it comes to men. She may have gotten help after, but the incedent will always be in the back of her mind. A woman feels betrayed, belittled, dirty, and powerless . Maybe that is why she is still in touch with her previous "friends". She can have the power, she gets to say hello or good-bye... I will admit its not very respectful that she continues contact after you told her your feelings ( I have recently discontinued contact with my ex. Of 15 years because of my new boyfriend feelings). But maybe it makes her feel stronger being able to keep them on a string...
Keep the ring in your pocket... I don't think she knows what she wants yet... and take it SLOW.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

^^^ good advice. She says she doesn't initiate any of the contact, so I find it hard to blame her for the contact, however it just seems to perpetuate...

[Emland]

I would think that if a girl decides to become your girlfriend then she should be excited to change her Myspace status to taken and share that info with her friends. She sounds like she is playing you and just waiting for something better to come along.

The thing that gets me is that there is no empathy from her end - its like she's right, I'm wrong, case closed. Im not insecure in our relationship, but it seems as though she is being apathetic to my feelings.

She has given you a take it or leave it ultimatum and you have a decision to make. She also sounds like a one way street. You have to care about her feelings but she doesn't have to worry about yours.

You seem to be really hung up on the date rape incident. That may have influenced her "it's just sex" attitude in that she is trying to diminish the original event by making sex meaningless. Does that make any sense?

And this last statement is not meant to diminish date rape in any way (I was almost a victim of it myself and Thank God for my best friend at the time for preventing it) but there are real cases of date rape (drugs, booze and being forced) then there are cases where the guy talked her into it and the woman feels coerced and manipulated but doesn't want to say no or fight back because she really doesn't want to lose the relationship. If she had screamed or fought he would have stopped but since she just didn't speak up for herself and let it happen she feels horribly violated. Does that explain how it could happen?

[InSearchOfAnswers]

You seem to be really hung up on the date rape incident. That may have influenced her "it's just sex" attitude in that she is trying to diminish the original event by making sex meaningless. Does that make any sense?

And this last statement is not meant to diminish date rape in any way (I was almost a victim of it myself and Thank God for my best friend at the time for preventing it) but there are real cases of date rape (drugs, booze and being forced) then there are cases where the guy talked her into it and the woman feels coerced and manipulated but doesn't want to say no or fight back because she really doesn't want to lose the relationship. If she had screamed or fought he would have stopped but since she just didn't speak up for herself and let it happen she feels horribly violated. Does that explain how it could happen?

She says she was dating a very charismatic guy who go drunkand forced himself on her. She said no repeatedly, but he kept on until he had successfully DR her. She felt confused, violted, scared, and at fault... my initial reaction was "why not kick him in the crotch?!"... I just couldn't see how someone could do this, and I really could see how she "could let it happen" - I know that sounds harsh, but I've been kneed a couple of time in consentual sex.. . anyway, to complicate matters, she told me about "the second time it happened" which I misunderstood as 'the second time I was DR"... what she actually meant was her 2nd sexual encounter. I was under the impression she had been DR twice for the better part of 7 months of our relationship, so my gut was telling me that she had been used by two guys for one night stands, and was now crying foul... so, again, the gears start turning, and I begin to think about how many other times this could have happened. My point - her '2nd time' was merely a drunken mistake on her part and was consentual, but does set the stage for possible deviant, self loathing behavior... so I had my doubts at some point.

Im a nice guy... I'm not a rapist... I can't put myself in the head of a rapist or an 18 yo virgin female... but I'm trying... when you add the emotion and feelings of love, things can get cloudy... I'm looking for clarity... its just a lot to take in... thanks to all for their input.

[talaniman]

Why is it so important you be exclusive? Can't you just occasionally date and have fun? Then it won't matter what she does on her own. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Forget an exclusive relationship. Date have fun, and earn each others trust, and loyalty.

[Allheart]

Hi Insearch -

You seem like a great guy and your girlfriend also seems to be a fine young lady. Just a couple pieces of advice:

1) Take her from under your micrscope. Insearch, my goodness, you seem to analyze this girls entire past. You love who she is today. Who she is today is a combination of all of her lifes experiences. Focus on who she is... not so much how she got there.

2) You are coming across a tad intense. Relax. ENJOY her, don't study her. I bet if she felt you relax a bit, some of the things causing you concern, would simply disappear.

No microscope... lower the intensity level... smile, enjoy who she is, relax and have fun.

Okay? :)

[letmetellu]

I just want to address on aspect of your post and that is the part about the rape. You can call it a date rape if you like but a rape is a rape. Girls who have been raped go through many different kind of experiences after it happens, some recover from the initial rape and then work through the "Recovery" very well. Some girls do not have this same capacity to deal with the trauma of being raped. You said you did not understand how a person can be raped or Date raped as the term is, well you have no idea of what was going through her mind as this rape was happening, am I going to live or will he kill me when he is finished, should I fight back or will this just make him more violent. That is a biggie for most girls. Another is what kind of disease might I get from this. Another thing that girls think about is that they have dreamed of being a virgin for the husband they have in the future and not that will never be. That one is the one that can make a girl lose all of her self esteem, and her pride and turn her into a promiscuous type of person, entirely different from the type she was before.
My advice to you is if you can not accept the fact that she was raped and is still recovering from it, I would not do her the disservice of going the next step in your relationship with her.

[letmetellu]

Something I forgot to mention was the fact that she seems to like the idea of hanging around girls that have been raped, again for some that is a part of the healing. They get feedback form each other and most Rape Crisis Centers have a night set aside for girl to meet with a counselor and discuss things that have happened during the week, it is not like the twelve step program of the AA but is similar.

[maxim]

Okay... so she might not initiate it, but, she doesn't discourage them from contacting her. Sorry, that's just my opinion.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Okay...so she might not initiate it, but, she does'nt discourage them from contacting her. Sorry, thats just my opinion.

Please elaborate... you are saying she should cut them off?

[Emland]

Her unwillingness to let go of her old boyfriends and "hookups" means that she isn't ready to commit to you completely. She is not ready for a ring. I don't think that she should cut off all communication with any man but you, but if her connection to them is causing pain and distress to you and she doesn't care about your feelings, then she is not ready for a long term relationship.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Her unwillingness to let go of her old boyfriends and "hookups" means that she isn't ready to commit to you completely. She is not ready for a ring. I don't think that she should cut off all communication with any man but you, but if her connection to them is causing pain and distress to you and she idoesn't care about your feelings, then she is not ready for a long term relationship.

[sigh]... yeah...