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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #1

    Jul 17, 2016, 01:08 PM
    A Pence for your thoughts
    Faced with the chance to be vice president, Indiana Governor Mike Pence worked hard to win Donald Trump over. The 2016 veep candidate went all out to charm Trump and his court of familial advisors. Despite what was reportedly some last minute wedding jitters on Trumpís part with such a conventional choice, Pence won the nod and then proceeded to do what vice presidents always do: reverse any previous positions that might be in conflict with those articulated by the top of the ticket. In doing so, he demonstrated that those who believe Pence illustrates a sea change in the Trump campaign are kidding themselves.

    By Friday night Pence, who denounced Trumpís call for a ban on Muslims travel to the United States as ďoffensive and unconstitutionalĒ was saying he endorsed the latest iteration of Trumpís proposal. In the same conversation, Pence also pronounced himself not only in favor of Trumpís idea of a great wall along the countryís southern border but his new bossís ludicrous pledge to make Mexico pay for it. If that wasnít a strong enough proof of fealty to the Donald, he also said he was in favor of reopening the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade agreement that he formerly favored, adding obsequiously that Trump was ďone of the best negotiators in the world.Ē Thatís a position that vendors who went unpaid by the billionaire would perhaps ruefully endorse.

    But thereís no point carping about Penceís newly slavish attitude toward Trump. Vice presidents arenít paid to criticize or act as a check on their presidents. They are there to do their bidding and that means Penceís conservative principles will be safely packed away until his time with Trump is over. Which is why all of the talk of Trumpís selection of Pence indicating that he is finally moderating or acting more like a traditional Republican is nonsense.

    One thing it does mean is that contrary to those conspiracy theorists and cynics, who even now consider Trumpís candidacy to be something of a prank, are wrong. The reality star desperately wants to be elected president and was persuaded by the wise counsel of his family and whoever else has his ear these days that a safe, solidly conservative pick like Pence was the smart play when compared to the other finalists. Pence wonít generate much excitement, but this move should minimize defections from doubtful Republicans though most of were bending the knee to Trump anyway. They will be persuaded that voting for Trump is justified not only by the unacceptable alternative of Hillary Clinton but also because theyíll think Penceís presence on the ticket indicates that a Trump administration will be recognizably Republican and conservative in nature rather than a radical departure from what the GOP has always stood for.

    But it is on that point that they are deceiving themselves.
    Even if you think thereís no significance to the fact that Trumpís rollout of Pence was largely about Trump, think about what will follow. In the still unlikely though quite possible event that Trump is elected, there will be many other Republicans who will take positions in his administration and thus choose ambition over principle and call it duty. But let no one be in any doubt that such an administration will reflect Trumpís views and spirit, not those of any conservatives who think they can influence or tame him. Having achieved power, he will not give it up but will be the same egomaniacal, unprincipled and controlling character he has always been. It will be a government driven by the sort of blood and soil ideasóprotectionism and isolationismóthat Trump has promoted while giving short shrift to the notion of limited government or protection of the Constitution, a topic about which he still knows little. With the exception of his hostility to immigration, his ideas will remain closer to those of mainstream liberal Democrats and even Bernie Sanders supporters than those of conservative Republicans, and he will govern accordingly. Principled House Republicans may think they can dictate what the next GOP administration will stand for and one wishes them luck in that regard, but if Trump becomes president, it is he who will call the tune.

    A Trump administration will call itself Republican and will mean the Clintons and their fraudulent machine and damaging liberal ideas will be out of power. That will be enough for most Republicans, at least until he takes office and starts channeling Nixon and governing from the left. But what many of those who will acclaim Trump in Cleveland and use Pence as an excuse for doing so donít realize is what cheap dates they have become. Trump has given conservatives nothing in order to consolidate his grip on the nomination in the past two months.

    What is remarkable is the alacrity with which the GOP establishment not only fell into line behind Trump but also worked harder and showed more energy quashing opposition to him in Cleveland than it showed while working against him. In return for this, all they got was Pence, who is more interested in flattering Trump than in restraining his imperial and liberal instincts, which is the only kind of person he can tolerate in his inner circle.

    In spite of Penceís bland presence, the Trump campaign and a putative Trump presidency will be a function of the reality starís attempt to transform a Reaganite conservative party to a populist Peronist cult of personality. The conservative cheap dates who will cheer his triumph in Cleveland will deserve the contempt a President Trump will show them if he makes it to the White House.

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/p...eap-gop-dates/
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #2

    Jul 17, 2016, 03:29 PM
    I'm not inclined at this stage to give you even a halfpenny Tom, let us see Dump pass the hurdle of the convention. I am very cynical about anything Dump does.As to liberal ideas being out of power, Dump is further to the left
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #3

    Jul 18, 2016, 09:50 AM
    They came up with a penetrating campaign logo . As usual ,Trump did not bother doing focus group analysis before they rushed this one out . If they had they would've gotten the sexual inuendo and the toilet paper reference.




    After a day of mocking on social media they pulled the logo .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #4

    Jul 18, 2016, 09:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    They came up with a penetrating campaign logo . As usual ,Trump did not bother doing focus group analysis before they rushed this one out . If they had they would've gotten the sexual inuendo and the toilet paper reference.




    After a day of mocking on social media they pulled the logo .
    The TP joke will always be with them. Also, Trump in the UK means f@rt, and pence means penny or cheap. Pence is in a quandry as to ideology. He's supposed to be the ultra-right wing, evangelical part of the ticket?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #5

    Jul 18, 2016, 10:52 AM
    He opposes everything Trump stands for . Trump is for protectionism and Pence supported all the free trade deals. Trump says he opposed the Iraq war . Pence voted for it . Trump is pro-abortion (he has a history of it ) .Pence is a social conservative.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #6

    Jul 18, 2016, 11:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The TP joke will always be with them. Also, Trump in the UK means f@rt, and pence means penny or cheap. Pence is in a quandry as to ideology. He's supposed to be the ultra-right wing, evangelical part of the ticket?
    Trump is a wild card . In the game of bridge no one quite knows which card the trump card will be.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #7

    Jul 18, 2016, 11:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    He opposes everything Trump stands for . Trump is for protectionism and Pence supported all the free trade deals. Trump says he opposed the Iraq war . Pence voted for it . Trump is pro-abortion (he has a history of it ) .Pence is a social conservative.
    Or something to appeal to everyone....
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #8

    Jul 18, 2016, 11:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Or something to appeal to everyone....
    Credible reports said that Trump really wanted Christie ,but his family inner circle understood that he had to balance the ticket. He looked unenthusiastic introducing Pence as his running mate . Actually he looked like he was about to undergo root canal.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #9

    Jul 18, 2016, 11:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Credible reports said that Trump really wanted Christie ,but his family inner circle understood that he had to balance the ticket. He looked unenthusiastic introducing Pence as his running mate . Actually he looked like he was about to undergo root canal.
    And then promptly left the stage....
    earl237's Avatar
    earl237 Posts: 532, Reputation: 57
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    #10

    Jul 18, 2016, 12:48 PM
    Pence signed a very hateful anti-gay law, is anti-abortion, doesn't believe in evolution or climate change, opposes the most sensible gun control laws, probably still thinks that vaccines cause autism and. Are the Republicans ever going to get over their Neanderthal views?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #11

    Jul 18, 2016, 02:07 PM
    Being against baby killing is Neanderthal .... nice .

    What do you define as " sensible "gun control. Why can't you be honest and admit that you don't want anyone to own any firearms ..that you want a repeal of the 2nd amendment .

    The so called "hateful " law he signed was similar to a federal one and those in 19 other states .What you failed to mention was that he immediately moved to make revisions of the law that made it against the law for businesses to discriminate against gays. Both chambers of Indianaís legislature passed the changes to the law . But that's ok . Let Evita run her campaign on gay rights and transformer bathrooms...... Real mainstream positions .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #12

    Jul 18, 2016, 02:31 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Being against baby killing is Neanderthal .... nice .
    What happens to those babies when they end up disabled or belonging to a 14yo who can't take care of it or to a mother who already has six kids? The Republicans don't care once the child is born.

    What do you define as " sensible "gun control. Why can't you be honest and admit that you don't want anyone to own any firearms ..that you want a repeal of the 2nd amendment .
    Assault weapons? Every gun owner needs at least one of those....
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #13

    Jul 18, 2016, 03:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    What happens to those babies when they end up disabled or belonging to a 14yo who can't take care of it or to a mother who already has six kids? The Republicans don't care once the child is born.


    Assault weapons? Every gun owner needs at least one of those....
    What is an assault weapon. Every hunting rifle is designed as a semi-automatic. 'Assault rifles' is a term the left invented .


    According to WHO there are 125,000 abortions per day worldwide. That exceeds your 14 year old scenario and is instead a worldwide infanticide movement . In the US that equates to 21 % of all pregnancies snuffed .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #14

    Jul 18, 2016, 05:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    What happens to those babies when they end up disabled or belonging to a 14yo who can't take care of it or to a mother who already has six kids? The Republicans don't care once the child is born.


    Assault weapons? Every gun owner needs at least one of those....
    There are enough assault weapons to arm the entire population already, if a gun owner hasn't got one now they are not trying
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #15

    Jul 18, 2016, 05:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    What is an assault weapon. Every hunting rifle is designed as a semi-automatic. 'Assault rifles' is a term the left invented .
    And all those assault rifle owners hunt....
    According to WHO there are 125,000 abortions per day worldwide. That exceeds your 14 year old scenario and is instead a worldwide infanticide movement . In the US that equates to 21 % of all pregnancies snuffed .
    Maybe women in the world should try birth control and also say no. Do you really want all those extra people in the world using up resources and polluting the planet?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #16

    Jul 18, 2016, 06:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post

    Maybe women in the world should try birth control and also say no. Do you really want all those extra people in the world using up resources and polluting the planet?
    seems to me they are using the killing of their babies as a form of birth control.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,847, Reputation: 5428
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    #17

    Jul 18, 2016, 06:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    seems to me they are using the killing of their babies as a form of birth control.
    Probably birth control is limited or unavailable. Maybe we need male control instead. After all, how did that fetus get there?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,704, Reputation: 171
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    #18

    Jul 18, 2016, 11:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Probably birth control is limited or unavailable. Maybe we need male control instead. After all, how did that fetus get there?
    You have to ask, you must be in control. The males are not the only ones to blame. With birth control pills readily available you have to ask why it is the female population still resorts to abortion as a form of birth control. The number of babies aborted is staggering indicating the problem is a moral one. There is one sure method of birth control
    Catsmine's Avatar
    Catsmine Posts: 3,827, Reputation: 739
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    #19

    Jul 19, 2016, 01:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    What is an assault weapon. Every hunting rifle is designed as a semi-automatic. 'Assault rifles' is a term the left invented .
    Point of clarification. "Assault Weapon" is the media's fictitious term. An "Assault Rifle" is a thing, specifically a weapon designed for infantry use capable of both semiautomatic and fully automatic firing.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,104, Reputation: 10852
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    #20

    Jul 19, 2016, 06:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Catsmine View Post
    Point of clarification. "Assault Weapon" is the media's fictitious term. An "Assault Rifle" is a thing, specifically a weapon designed for infantry use capable of both semiautomatic and fully automatic firing.
    Gotcha on the "specifically a weapon designed for infantry use" as well as "capable of both semiautomatic and fully automatic firing" that anybody can modify rather quickly and easily, and in the hands of such persons, or ANYONE, that THING can kill a lot of innocents, and even highly trained and armed public servants.

    That's the whole problem, any loony, criminal, can get one rather easily despite the law, through many loopholes and restrictions. That good guy with a gun is never around, so we have to call a cop. I got nothing against cops, but will he be that well trained one, or some wannabe who ain't so well trained, experienced, or qualified? Or even a good cop period.

    The media's "fictitious terms" is NOT the issue, or the problem.

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