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ce310 · Nov 18, 2015, 10:01 AM

Diverter sends water to the spout only, not the shower. Got to the diverter, but here I don't know to remove the diverter itself. No hex nuts inside the threaded sleeve, it will not pull out, it won't come out by twisting the stem to its limits with pressure. I'm using a picture from another question, and this is the same diverter in my case. Any hints? Name: valve_03.jpg
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Name: valve_03.jpg
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massplumber2008 · Nov 18, 2015, 04:51 PM

Why do you need a diverter if it only sends water to the spout... shouldn't be needed? Just curious on this?

Otherwise, by the picture posted, my guess is that the stem is removed by getting to the valve body deeper into the wall. How big is the hole in the wall? Can you see the entire valve body? If so, are there bolts/screws holding a cap of some kind to the valve body? Let me know more, OK?

One guess would be to remove the entire threaded brass shaft and see what is under it... I'd start there.

Mark

Milo Dolezal · Nov 19, 2015, 12:04 AM

Is it a Push / Pull diverter ? Looking at your photo - the inside thread indicates to me the stem unscrews out. Try again

Milo

talaniman · Nov 19, 2015, 05:34 AM

The right tool for the job.

Shop Pipe Wrenches at Lowes.com!

To gain leverage use a cheater which is simply a length of pipe over the pipe wrench handle. You will have to replace the brass nipple and the cartridge, so don't worry about screwing up the threads on the nipple.

massplumber2008 · Nov 19, 2015, 08:58 AM

I'm pretty sure the threaded brass shaft is just there to accept the trim guys. A picture of the valve inside the wall would help here...

talaniman · Nov 19, 2015, 09:14 AM

I agree, and maybe you can get a bite on the cartridge stem maybe you can't. Maybe the cartridge brings the nipple out too. Either way they both can be replaced easily, and when pliers don't work (or channel locks ) the pipe wrenches come out.

You go from there.

ce310 · Nov 22, 2015, 09:06 AM

Not a push pull

I tried heavy duty pressure on the stem with handle on it after removing the bonnet nut. No luck. Tried pulling on no luck. Can't tell if the nipple or sleeve that we see is removable, may have to destroy it to get this out. No access from behind, chimney race in the way. Attachment 47992

ce310 · Nov 22, 2015, 09:18 AM

Name: valve_04.jpg
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Better picture of it.

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Why do you need a diverter if it only sends water to the spout... shouldn't be needed? Just curious on this?

Otherwise, by the picture posted, my guess is that the stem is removed by getting to the valve body deeper into the wall. How big is the hole in the wall? Can you see the entire valve body? If so, are there bolts/screws holding a cap of some kind to the valve body? Let me know more, OK?

One guess would be to remove the entire threaded brass shaft and see what is under it... I'd start there.

Mark

Not a push pull. See a new picture in this thread, better view.

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Is it a Push / Pull diverter ? Looking at your photo - the inside thread indicates to me the stem unscrews out. Try again

Milo

ce310 · Nov 22, 2015, 09:24 AM

I'm messing on the post reply to you. Shower/tub with a diverter for tub or shower. May have destroy the sleeve or nipple. No access from rear. I'll try this pics again for your post. Name: valve_04.jpg
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Name: valve_04.jpg
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Name: valve_06.jpg
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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Why do you need a diverter if it only sends water to the spout... shouldn't be needed? Just curious on this?

Otherwise, by the picture posted, my guess is that the stem is removed by getting to the valve body deeper into the wall. How big is the hole in the wall? Can you see the entire valve body? If so, are there bolts/screws holding a cap of some kind to the valve body? Let me know more, OK?

One guess would be to remove the entire threaded brass shaft and see what is under it... I'd start there.

Mark

massplumber2008 · Nov 22, 2015, 01:35 PM

Start by removing the threaded brass shaft... should easily spin off using a pair of pliers. See what is exposed once the threaded brass shaft is off.

ce310 · Nov 23, 2015, 07:56 AM

I assume you mean the large shaft that houses the diverter valve. The shaft is threaded both inside and outside. I've gripped it and turned CCW, no luck. I've not yet put any tools on it for fear of ruining the outer threads, these threads are for the escutcheon. The inner threads take the bonnet nut which is off. I don't know if the sleeve (shaft) unscrews from the unit behind the wall. No access behind the wall due to a chimney race. The valve itself, I've put plenty of pressure on the valve stem with the handle on the stem, a rag over the handle, and twisting CCW. I fear ruining the stem knurls in case they are needed once things are loosened up. Thinking maybe the wall has to be trashed to get at the unit. Old house, in an estate and we're trying to get it ready to go on the market.

talaniman · Nov 23, 2015, 08:29 AM

Before you trash the wall, get a proper pipe wrench (And cheater if needed) and don't worry about destroying the threads of the larger shaft because that and the cartridge are EASILY replaced.

Or consult a professional... BEFORE you complicate this project further by trashing your wall... unnecessarily.

ce310 · Nov 23, 2015, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Before you trash the wall, get a proper pipe wrench (And cheater if needed) and don't worry about destroying the threads of the larger shaft because that and the cartridge are EASILY replaced.

Or consult a professional... BEFORE you complicate this project further by trashing your wall... unnecessarily.

You are right:"Or consult a professional... BEFORE you complicate this project further by trashing your wall... unnecessarily." It's just that some of the folks today working for the plumbing companies are young and don't know these things. Just showed the picture, yesterday, to a young guy from a plumbing company and he didn't know, he thought the sleeve should come off, but not sure. But if anybody mucks it up, probably should be a professional. Thanks all. Still would appreciate input here.

Milo Dolezal · Nov 23, 2015, 09:47 AM

Did you try grabbing the end of the stem with pliers and pull it out ? What was screwed in on the inside threads ? Was there a nut that was pushing against the stem, holding it in ?

If you show us the trim, we may be able to ID the faucet and look it up

Milo

talaniman · Nov 23, 2015, 12:25 PM

I agree with Milo, more info is needed, and possibly it's time to go to the source

Faucets, Sinks & Showers for Bathroom, Kitchen & more - Moen

From there to Moen's Contact / Help Information and Phone Number

It appears it may be some old design, or some well intended plumber from back in the day added undocumented modifications. Be good to find out what the real deal is before proceeding. I found no such design in my search.

ce310 · Nov 24, 2015, 10:28 AM

Well, I did find out that although there is a chimney race going through a closet just behind the tub/shower wall, that there must be some space to look at it from behind. Looked in the cellar and found the hot and cold lines to the tub shower just beside the chimney itself. My next step is to see if I can see any manufacturer name, etc. on the unit if I can squeeze into the closet and remove sheetrock panel. BTW, this is similar to another thread within this site. And...I want to thank all of you who are making suggestions and submitting leads, etc. It is greatly appreciated. I'm not a plumber, but still, when younger, now am 80, I did lots of this stuff my self, sweating joints (pipes, not mine) installation under the supervision of a plumber, etc. These old bones have a hard with the bending, squirming and fitting into places where the pipes are.

Milo Dolezal · Nov 24, 2015, 10:38 AM

Just install the trim back on the stem, take a photo of it and post it. We will ID the faucet by the trim. No need to cut the wall

Milo

hkstroud · Nov 24, 2015, 05:12 PM

BTW, this is similar to another thread within this site.

Can you point us to that thread?

ce310 · Jan 14, 2016, 09:45 AM

Here is the answer to my diverter problem. Diverter is broken. The water did not go to the shower head when the diverter was turned to the proper position. This is a three handle system, hot, cold and diverter in the middle.

This is an American standard. Diverter valve is supposed to slide out of the sleeve in the picture after the bonnet nut has been removed. They freeze in there. Apply heavy duty pressure in a counter clockwise direction on the valve stem with vice grips or water pumps. These valves become stuck, but once it starts to move in the CCW direction, it is loosening. Keep at it until you can pull the valve straight out of the sleeve. I applied WD-40 into the sleeve. It didn't help right away. But after I paid a plumber to come, a month later, and when he applied brute force to the stem, out it came. Old valve, had to find a place selling these valves. Also, once the valve is removed, make sure the water flows out of the unit with both hot and cold. And before you go through this work, make sure the shower head is not totally clogged, if old. Take it off the shower and see if the water flows then. I know my diverter looked good when it came out, but it crunched when I forced it to move between tub spout and shower head. But also, after installing the new valve, the shower head still didn't work. I removed it. It had clogged also. But I'm sure the diverter was bad because of the way it turned for 360 degrees and crunched. Hope this helps.