[guycomander]

I am self employed walking a dog for my mom, for 10 dollars a day and possibly walking other dogs hopefully in future. I can get pay stub or keep record to file taxes if needed. Can my probation officer say. "that's not a job" or "that does not count." After all I am being paid for my time. Its not the best job but it's a job.

[Fr_Chuck]

No it is not a real job, it is like a child on an allowance. You mom is not paying unemployment taxes, there is no social security taxes being paid, and so on.

You PO, (and almost the entire world) would agree this is not a job. Also most important it is not an approved job. Let say you became a bouncer at a strip club, the PO could say you not allowed to work there.

So go out and get a real job.

[guycomander]

No it is not a real job, it is like a child on an allowance. You mom is not paying unemployment taxes, there is no social security taxes being paid, and so on.

You PO, (and almost the entire world) would agree this is not a job. Also most important it is not an approved job. Let say you became a bouncer at a strip club, the PO could say you not allowed to work there.

So go out and get a real job.

I would be filing taxes as self employed income not as employed by a business. I could save checks and receipts for taxes. How is that not employment? My conditions make no specification between self employed or employed by business. It just says gainfully employed. I eventually intend to acquire other customers even and be self employed walking dogs for a living. Under what authority can they dis allow self employment, it is not an indecent, immoral or a at risk field like a bar. Can I not own my own business? I did not see that in the paper work? At what dollar amount or profit level do you think it would take to be considered reasonably self employed, than? I am disabled and not even physically able to work most jobs. They couldn't tell adam kokesh that you tube did not count as a real job. Self employed does count as employed in other cases I have seen. I guess what I am getting at is under what conditions do they consider your self employment to be valid or not? Obviously they would consider a contractor, realtor or a lawyer self employed. Some people make damn good money tending dogs or running their own business. Would Caesar "the dog whisperer." not be considered employed? Obviously there has to be some allowance for self employed people.

[J_9]

$10 a day is not "gainfully employed."

[talaniman]

Unfortunately guy no amount of argument or debate will change your PO's mind, so I strongly suggest you comply and find gainful employment to satisfy the court, while you pursue your own business.

[guycomander]

I'd be gaining 300 a month consistently and on a regular basis from my employer... myself (self employed) or my customer's. And starting my own business with the prospect of growth.WIKI says gainful employment is: gainful employment refers to an employment situation where the employee receives consistent work and payment from the employer. If 10 $ a day does not count, than how many dollars a day would count? 20? 30? 40? 50? 60? 70? 80? 90? 100? The court can't order you to be a millionaire. I'm disabled, old, have a record. How much can they really expect from me.How about if I play the stock market, can I call myself a self employed day trader?I have no restitution and plenty of savings, what is the big f'n deal here. This is cruel and unusual punishment, this is forced slavery. I don't consider being a PO a real job either, but you don't see me criticizing them.

[J_9]

WIKI is not a reliable source.

Your PO is requiring that you get a legitimate job. Don't argue with us, argue with your PO.

[smoothy]

Just get a REAL job like everyone said... or get ready to suffer the consequences of being violated by your PO (seems like that is EXACTLY what you want)... He has that latitude. You don't.

Argue with him and you are all but certain to lose. Nobody else buys your arguments either. Sorry to be so blunt but you don't appear to be listening to anything but what you want to hear.

[talaniman]

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks your PO is the one who is charged with compliance with your COURT ordered probation/parole. Instead of arguing, ask for help, or get a lawyer, or a doctor to define your disability.

Hell, a Walmart greeter may qualify you as gainfully employed and you can still walk your mama's dog. Your PO didn't put you at his discretion... you did.

[Fr_Chuck]

To answer the question, as "asked" yes your PO can define and decide if a "job" is OK and if it follows the rules.
If you wish to piss him off, and argue, (I can tell why you have a PO from the arguments) Just pack your bag and go on to jail. A PO can find ways to send you back, if they get mad at you.
I know, I used to be a PO some years ago.

And if you had even 4 or 5 other customers that was not family members, you may convince someone that a dog walking business was employment.
But depending on the level of probation, (for what type of crime and what level this is) even any self employment may not be considered. They may want you to work for a company.

[guycomander]

WIKI is not a reliable source.

Your PO is requiring that you get a legitimate job. Don't argue with us, argue with your PO.

So what amount of money counts as legitimately self employed to a PO I don't have one yet? Would 50$ a day count? I have the money to make whatever needs to happen, happen. What would it hurt if I gave money to other people I know out of the kindness of my heart, than since they like me they hire me to walk dogs or buy my paintings. I file taxes on the income, now I'm self employed making whatever amount a PO wants. I just need to know what that amount and procedure is.

I haven't spoke to the PO yet, I would like to head off his BS before it starts. And if I am unable to get a job I would like to have something else planned. I am looking for rules, regulations, laws or standard operating procedure on this issue. I would like to know what a PO considers validly self employed. Than whatever standard that is, I can meet it.

Do I have room to argue? Do I get leeway or some specific government regulated amount of time to find a job? I can't force a company to hire me. At best all I can do is fill out applications or become self employed. For someone who is disabled I find this to be a messed up requirement. I could probably be going on social security disability if I tried. Does that count to a PO? I don't understand how a cripple can be forced like this.

I'm not arguing, I am looking for the governments own rules and regulations for dealing with the issue so I know what to expect before I meet my PO. As I said, I want to head the bs off. And as I can't force a company to hire me. I don't have a job now. I would like to create my own and want to know what guidelines they go by. I am not looking for opinions, I am looking for laws , regulation ,standard procedures, and official policy.

[Fr_Chuck]

You do not stop his BS. In fact you sit quiet and just listen.
There is no set amount, he will want a "job" normally where you work for someone and have specific hours, where he can get a report from them.

He may not accept any self employment as a "real job" You will have to keep a record of how many places you go in person and apply. You will have to keep a record of the resumes you sent out. Normally if you show a real and active search, you are OK, to the point that you can pay any probation costs, court fines and so on.

If you wish to argue about anything with the PO, you can expect him to try and find ways to send you to jail. And they are very very good at that.

[guycomander]

To answer the question, as "asked" yes your PO can define and decide if a "job" is OK and if it follows the rules.
If you wish to piss him off, and argue, (I can tell why you have a PO from the arguments) Just pack your bag and go on to jail. A PO can find ways to send you back, if they get mad at you.
I know, I used to be a PO some years ago.

And if you had even 4 or 5 other customers that was not family members, you may convince someone that a dog walking business was employment.
But depending on the level of probation, (for what type of crime and what level this is) even any self employment may not be considered. They may want you to work for a company.

I appreciate your sincerity. I did nothing too serious just a little too much medicinal pot in possession.

So what amount of money counts as legitimately self employed to a PO I don't have one yet? Would 50$ a day count? I have the money to make whatever needs to happen, happen. What would it hurt if I gave money to other people I know out of the kindness of my heart, than since they like me they hire me to walk dogs or buy my paintings. I file taxes on the income, now I'm self employed making whatever amount a PO wants. I just need to know what that amount and procedure is.

I haven't spoke to the PO yet, I would like to head off his BS before it starts. And if I am unable to get a job I would like to have something else planned. I am looking for rules, regulations, laws or standard operating procedure on this issue. I would like to know what a PO considers validly self employed. Than whatever standard that is, I can meet it.

Do I have room to argue? Do I get leeway or some specific government regulated amount of time to find a job? I can't force a company to hire me. At best all I can do is fill out applications or become self employed. For someone who is disabled I find this to be a messed up requirement. I could probably be going on social security disability if I tried. Does that count to a PO? I don't understand how a cripple can be forced like this.

I'm not arguing, I am looking for the governments own rules and regulations for dealing with the issue so I know what to expect before I meet my PO. As I said, I want to head the bs off. And as I can't force a company to hire me. I don't have a job now. I would like to create my own and want to know what guidelines they go by. I am not looking for opinions, I am looking for laws , regulation ,standard procedures, and official policy.

[smoothy]

So what amount of money counts as legitimately self employed to a PO I don't have one yet? Would 50$ a day count? I have the money to make whatever needs to happen, happen. What would it hurt if I gave money to other people I know out of the kindness of my heart, than since they like me they hire me to walk dogs or buy my paintings. I file taxes on the income, now I'm self employed making whatever amount a PO wants. I just need to know what that amount and procedure is.

I haven't spoke to the PO yet, I would like to head off his BS before it starts. And if I am unable to get a job I would like to have something else planned. I am looking for rules, regulations, laws or standard operating procedure on this issue. I would like to know what a PO considers validly self employed. Than whatever standard that is, I can meet it.

Do I have room to argue? Do I get leeway or some specific government regulated amount of time to find a job? I can't force a company to hire me. At best all I can do is fill out applications or become self employed. For someone who is disabled I find this to be a messed up requirement. I could probably be going on social security disability if I tried. Does that count to a PO? I don't understand how a cripple can be forced like this.

I'm not arguing, I am looking for the governments own rules and regulations for dealing with the issue so I know what to expect before I meet my PO. As I said, I want to head the bs off. And as I can't force a company to hire me. I don't have a job now. I would like to create my own and want to know what guidelines they go by. I am not looking for opinions, I am looking for laws , regulation ,standard procedures, and official policy.

Sounds like an argument to me. Just not a heated one (you don't have to be upset and angry to have an argument). They say do something and you try to counter with excuses and reasons you don't want to. In the eyes of a PO and most other people... (like parents as one example)... that is the definition of an argument.

If you spent as much time looking for a real job as you are spending looking for reasons NOT to get one. You will find one. It might not be a great one... but it will be a job and you aren't going to make your PO's sh*t list. Which means everything you do will be put under the microscope.

Two ways you can do this... comply without being argumentative... and stay under the radar... or draw attention to yourself and make them watch you like a hawk for any infraction.

Personally if it was me... I'd comply to the letter without trying to parse words or argue definitions... rather than make them WANT to prove what they have the power to do.

Eventually it will be over and you can walk dogs the rest of your life if you wish.

It all boils down to this....challenge their authority in any way (you are actually doing this by what you are trying to do)....and you challenge them to show you how hard they can make your probation/parole for you.

Parole/Probation isn't a negotiation, its part of the punishment. They lay out rules and conditions...you follow them to the letter. Fail to do that and they decide you haven't complied they can take steps that will result in extending it or even send you back to jail (when that applies).

[talaniman]

I am sure no PO will base his report on your mama being your only customer and source of income, and you can at least document your efforts at gainful employment. To think you can claim being disabled without having gone through the process to verify such is CRAZY if you think a PO should take your word for it.

The PO is already operating within the laws and regulations of the government, so you better listen and act like you are complying. You have been informed already that walking your mama's dog is NOT legit. That's NOT going to change so find another option. One that can be checked, verified, and put in an official government report.

[joypulv]

I sympathize. Despite your willingness to go against a PO. Sounds like probation for 'too much medicinal pot' is a bit much, if that's the real case. I am wondering why you are ordered to have a job if you are prescribed medicinal pot. And how does someone manage to get too much prescribed pot? If you got a genuine diagnosis, and not just a doc in a box prescription for vague pain, then you should be able to get out of work. Can you explain all that?

I would be conciliatory and ask for his advice. Rather than arm yourself with wiki facts and all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo, say that you have started some pocket change with the dog walking, while you search for more work. Fall yard work, perhaps.

[Fr_Chuck]

I will have to go with the others, unless you are classified disabled by a doctor, with a illness that is a real disability. That is specifically defined, or have a medical condition where a medical doctor will testify you can not work. You can work at least to a PO. Your "statements" will mean nothing (he expects you to lie and do not expect him to believe a word you say)

Even a good PO is normally a . And most on the first meeting, will be an extreme , just to try to see what you will do.

Most are over worked and have no desire to play but just want to mark boxes on a paper and get you out of the office.

This appears to be a minor drug offense, so most likely, if you just say yes sir, no sir, you walk out of the office and that is it.

[guycomander]

I sympathize. Despite your willingness to go against a PO. Sounds like probation for 'too much medicinal pot' is a bit much, if that's the real case. I am wondering why you are ordered to have a job if you are prescribed medicinal pot. And how does someone manage to get too much prescribed pot? If you got a genuine diagnosis, and not just a doc in a box prescription for vague pain, then you should be able to get out of work. Can you explain all that?

I would be conciliatory and ask for his advice. Rather than arm yourself with wiki facts and all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo, say that you have started some pocket change with the dog walking, while you search for more work. Fall yard work, perhaps.

Thanks to everyone for your help, maybe I am making a worse situation about it by thinking too much. I have a well documented medical history in a folder thicker than a bible. I was diagnosed by a workers comp doc once with little to no usefulness in my hands As well as a shattered skull and brain injury. I had to quit my job at the time as doc said I was unfit to work there, paid a large cash settlement. I was only 25 at the time and could afford to live off the settlement and did not apply for social security because I was told at that age if I could walk I wouldn't get it. 10 years has passed and my condition is now worse. I will just bring my medical history with me and see what they say.

Thanks everyone sorry if I sounded argumentative or like I was making excuses. You have all been helpful in helping me think about the situation, I will be as sweet as candy to whoever my handler is.

To everyone out there in computer land. BEWARE the supposed legalization of marijuana. In my experience my status as a patient was exploited like a Trojan horse by law enforcement to make up reasons to raid my home and steal my private property. Trump up charges and treat me like an enemy of the state despite my formerly patriotic nature. If you have a fire arm of any kind any where in your home even in a safe in storage that you have never even touched or even looked at and you are in the medical marijuana database, bad things will happen. It does not matter how law abiding you think you are or that you have no criminal record. If you are a marijuana patient you are a second class citizen and you have no rights, most of all no right to own a firearm of any kind, not use or brandish, simply own.Even if it is a civil war relic that you would never use and inherited from your grand dad. The law does not care and will use anything in a blown out of proportion way. My family lost a piece of its history simply so cops could trump up charges and get a plea deal. A patient with pot = a law suite for unlawful raid and civil rights violations. A patient with pot and a gun = a trial for being a drug dealer who has a gun with an 8 year mandatory minimum penalty. Which pleads out to a mis demeanor for possession, that gets erased after probation and forced slave labor, the confiscation of your property and money, not to mention, no more chance at law suite and proving your innocence in a fair setting that is not overblown.


Anyway thanks everyone, I have given you all your credit and helpful marks. Hey one last question, do you get or win any thing for getting a higher rating?

[smoothy]

Well... like you said.. "Legalization" really isn't when Federal law Trumps all lower state or local laws... and because The FEDS never legalized it.

And what someone incorrectly THINKS is true (but isn't)... is what gets them in trouble most often.

You didn't get forced slave labor... you got a Slap on the wrist when you could have done hard time, instead of complaining about it, consider what you could have got had they not offered a plea deal . If you had been charged under Federal statutes... the mandatory minimum would be 5 years on the gun alone.

You had a chance at a trial... which is as fair as you will find anyplace in the world. You gave that up accepting a plea deal (admitting guilt for a lesser charge). If you was so certain of innocence you should have fought it.

And no it doesn't get erased... expunged is NOT erased (that's another common misconception). It will always be on your record. It just won't show up if you apply at Walmart to be a greeter for example. Apply at a Bank or certain other higher level security related jobs and it WILL show up. Or any future arrests if there are any.

You have a lot of misunderstandings you need to get better educated on... instead of harboring a grudge that you was picked on by the legal system.

That isn't meant in a mean way... but it will help you steer clear of trouble in the future. There is a lot of wrong information out there... being able to identify it will only work to your advantage.

I'm sure you have known plenty of examples of that you can relate to with other people you have known well. I think we all have.

[guycomander]

Well... like you said.. "Legalization" really isn't when Federal law Trumps all lower state or local laws... and because The FEDS never legalized it.

And what someone incorrectly THINKS is true (but isn't)... is what gets them in trouble most often.

You didn't get forced slave labor... you got a Slap on the wrist when you could have done hard time, instead of complaining about it, consider what you could have got had they not offered a plea deal . If you had been charged under Federal statutes... the mandatory minimum would be 5 years on the gun alone.

You had a chance at a trial... which is as fair as you will find anyplace in the world. You gave that up accepting a plea deal (admitting guilt for a lesser charge). If you was so certain of innocence you should have fought it.

And no it doesn't get erased... expunged is NOT erased (that's another common misconception). It will always be on your record. It just won't show up if you apply at Walmart to be a greeter for example. Apply at a Bank or certain other higher level security related jobs and it WILL show up. Or any future arrests if there are any.

You have a lot of misunderstandings you need to get better educated on... instead of harboring a grudge that you was picked on by the legal system.

That isn't meant in a mean way... but it will help you steer clear of trouble in the future. There is a lot of wrong information out there... being able to identify it will only work to your advantage.

I'm sure you have known plenty of examples of that you can relate to with other people you have known well. I think we all have.

There was no complaint, no witnesses, no victim except me, nothing to lead them to me other than one day I was stopped and frisked in my own exclusive alley outside my house and I told them they broke the law and infringed on my civil rights with their illegal search. They said the owner of the house (me) had called to complain about (me) for suspicion of robbery to justify their unlawful and unconstitutional actions/harassment. Well that's odd. I basically told them I wasn't buying it to go harass someone else. They claimed they smelt pot somehow obtained a warrant based on that and raided my home. They preyed on my medical vulnerabilities and needs to settle a petty pissing contest.
My kangaroo court trial took two years and I can not nearly explain its entirety nor depravity. I had my limited resources, they had infinite resources. I went to court ready for the jury trial a number of times and every time the slimy DA would up the anti and add charges to intimidate me out of a trial by adding false and ridiculous charges. The only hint of doubt I had is all the gun grabbing hysteria all over the TV and the unrealistic way the DA portrayed me, as well as a police can do no wrong attitude that some types who might end up on my jury might have. Most Americans can't point out America on a world map let alone name the three branches of government. The system is rigged and off the constitutional reservation. By the time he (DA) was done a little pot and the civil war era relic gun that was stored in a safe, I didn't even have a key or access too, came up to 10 felonies 3 being mandatory 8 year minimum. About 30 years at risk. I could not take that big of risk, I don't trust my fellow man to do the right thing, that much. Now I know you are probably not a constitutional expert but please point out in the constitution the amendment to prohibit marijuana in any shape or form. They amended to prohibit alcohol than had to amend to change it back. So why not marijuana. The constitution says congress shall not abnegate its duties to some undue entity, yet it does so in the form of the FDA, I view this as government over reach and bureaucracies gone rogue and simply making the law up as they go. In the enumeration of powers clause. The constitution clearly says that the government is only granted powers expressly listed in the constitution, It has no right to assume powers not expressly granted or enumerated. This event is gross misuse and abuse of force and the politicizing of law. We are supposed to live in a constitutional republic. Not a mob mentality democracy in which laws and principals are the choice of whatever faction is in power. I will forever be a libertarian or a constitutionalist as a result and spend the rest of my life and wealth pushing for a reigning in of the corrupt fascistic police state. I will probably become one of those YouTube cop block activists that I am sure you hate, following around the pigs with camera's all day waiting for them to slip up and shoot and beat innocence and trample the constitution on film. They are F - ing parasites from the top down. If you enforce unconstitutional laws that makes you the criminal not me. They serve only themselves and the elite. They are mercenaries and usurpers against "we the people."

I'm "Lucky"
for the deal, no the DA just didn't have any confidence in his case and he knew I would sue the ever loving crap out of him if I won. So risk 30 years to get out of a small erasable misdemeanor just to sue, what would you do? I do regret not going to trial still, the risk was just too high, too exaggerated. The table to tilted.

I in no way condone any illegal activity or violence, this is not to be construed as a call to, suggestion or declaration of action of any kind. All accounts opinions, prior comments and stories are fictional. Please just assume I am a liar, especially if your the police and you take offense.