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rmissyjo1 · Apr 8, 2007, 10:00 PM

I do not believe in the trinity but I do notice that some few scriptures like John 1:1 and John 8:58, Titus 2:13, also Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (Catholic translation) call Jesus God. Yet the overwhelming majority of scripture shows Jesus' subjection to the Father. Is it possible to come up with a definitive list of all NT scriptures pro Trinity and all NT scriptures anti Trinity. This might be the only way I can convince my Calvinist Trinitarian friend whose leader by the way burnt Michael Servetus at the stake for his anti trinitarian beliefs. Also, is there a list of famous people who did not believe in the trinity and a list of some who gave their lives over it? Thanks

Clough · Apr 9, 2007, 12:52 AM

You might want to try the following sites for an answer. I hope that they are of use to you.

What is the Trinity?

The Blessed Trinity: An Explanation

God In Three Persons- The Trinity

American Thinker: A Brief Explanation of the Trinity

A Rational Explanation of the Trinity

A layman's explanation of The Trinity

fielmie · Oct 8, 2010, 02:44 PM

The one... energy of the one... a person with some of that amount of energy that flows true him.

Was God Jezus... no. no human can behold the energy and knowledge of God.
Also Jezus talks allways about and to 'the father'.

adam7gur · Oct 11, 2010, 11:41 AM

I think that the best verse showing the Son's deity is this Isaiah 48:16 "Come close to me, and listen to this: since the beginning I have not spoken in secret, since the time things began to be, I have been there; and now Adonai ELOHIM has sent me and his Spirit."
While the person that speaks here says that He was there in the beginning, that SAME person says that the Lord God sent Him and His Spirit! So how can a God be sent by a God? The answear is that the Son, the Word that became flesh, was sent by the Father with The Father's Spirit. The person that speaks here clearly states His deity by saying that He was there when everything started and that He did not spoke in secret and who can speak if not the Word, God's Son that we know as Jesus the Christ! Still this same person, the Son says that He was sent by God and His Spirit, so how many divine persons do we have here? Definitely more than one!

dwashbur · Oct 12, 2010, 07:17 PM

You are correct that several passages call Jesus God. The trinity isn't an idea that's spelled out in so many words. Basically it's a synthesis of observations drawn from careful study of the Bible. Specifically, there is a Father who is called God; there is a Son who is called God; and there is a Holy Spirit who is called God. Yet the Bible is adamant that there is only one true God. So a God who exists in the form of a trinity of persons is pretty much the only conclusion we can draw from the evidence. What does it look like? I have no idea. We can come up with analogies and illustrations and they all fall short because we're trying to describe something that is by definition indescribable.

You are correct that Jesus, when he was on earth, was subject to the Father. And he said the Father is greater than he is. But he never said the Father is BETTER than he is. It is perfectly logical for them to be equal in substance and divinity while having a hierarchy of station or function, so to speak.

dddttt · Feb 27, 2011, 08:09 AM

Its impossible for Jesus not to be God because the prophecy shows that the messiah has to be without sin, the only person in the universe not capable of sinning is God, even the Israelites knew that and that's way they refuse to become Christian because they believe Christianity has three God's when God specifically said he will have no other god before him so why would he send his human son, which is impossilble because Jesus was at the beginning of time so if there wans't a Mary how could he be born. "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

30 I and the Father are one.

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

classyT · Mar 2, 2011, 12:42 PM

You can go to Geneis and find the Lord Jesus there. He is throughout the scripture. Nothing was made without him. And there is no verse that would suggest he isn't God.. so I don't know how to do a list of pro's and con's.

Even as far back as Geneis God says... let US make man in our own image.

A perfect picture of the trinity can be found in the gospels at the baptism of the Lord Jesus.The account is found in Luke.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.