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Pearlchambers · Nov 7, 2014, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by ebaines

If the original docsuments were notarized there would be a raised notary seal on the paper - there is no way to forge that with simple photocopy or scan, copy and paste. So - have you seen the original?

Secondly, the notary public who notarized the document would have a log book of date and time and a record of the government-issued ID that was used to proved the identity of the person signing. Get in touch with that notary public and ask to see her log.

I went back to clerk of court but that deputy clerk no longer works there. Also, I am thinking that the doc was already prepared prior to giving it to the clerk of court. I believe he took a girl with him that may favor me. But, how would she produce I.d?

Pearlchambers · Nov 7, 2014, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

A raised seal, an a notarial log-book is not always used, nor are they required in all states.

But yes, taking the deposition of the notary would be the first step.

As Fr Chuck indicated, OP should not rely on the court to get to the bottom of this; instead OP should hire her own investigator @/or forensic expert(s).

There are several other related threads by OP. Someone should merge them.

I'm in Arizona currently. As far as hiring a forensic expert, they are asking for the original docs. I've never seen the originals. Can you please tell me why I should hire an investigator? Especially if the court is willing to look into?

AK lawyer · Nov 7, 2014, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Pearlchambers

I believe he took a girl with him that may favor me. But, how would she produce I.d?

It's possible that she wasn't asked to provide ID. You'd have to ask the notary.

Originally Posted by Pearlchambers

... As far as hiring a forensic expert, they are asking for the original docs. I've never seen the originals. Can you please tell me why I should hire an investigator? Especially if the court is willing to look into?

A "forensic expert" can be handwriting expert who, as I understand it, doesn't need to examine the original document in order to have an opinion as to who wrote a document (or a signature).

Judges are not usually expert witnesses. Furthermore, they only are required to consider the evidence presented to them. If you want something done right you do it yourself (or hire someone).

Pearlchambers · Dec 22, 2014, 07:59 AM

Seems like it is really hard to prove forgery. This moron of an ex husband forges my name on a parenting plan. I had no idea! This gives him joint custody and a 50/50 parenting plan. When I initially had sole custody and he was supposed to visit every other weekend. Anything to get out of paying Childsupport. So in the process of going back and forth to court, the original papers filed can not be located. Most likely exiled and original docs shredded. Judge says this doesn't appear to be a forgery!! Only because both parties have to show I.d at the clerk of court and apparently sign in presence if clerk. This leads me to believe he took someone posing as me or he had docs notorized at clerk of court with only his sign and later did a cut copy paste. Do I have any other way to prove that I didn't sign this?? Why doesn't court pull the video tape?? It had been almost 2 years now since it happened. Do I have an option to file a police report or will they dismiss it?

joypulv · Dec 22, 2014, 08:19 AM

It isn't hard to prove forgery. It's hard to get a Family Court to pay for an expert.
Video gets recycled. Probably more often than every 2 years. Did you ask for it?
The police don't 'dismiss' cases, courts do. Police can refuse to investigate, or show it to the DA's office. They make take your report and file it away. That's pretty common. You can file a report as a sort of record of what you think happened, but it's not likely to ever get used.

I'm finding it hard to believe that your ex (who is sleezy but no moron) got away with a copy/paste. More likely he has an ID of yours, and took a woman who looks like you. But who knows - your court isn't caring too much about this, probably overloaded with cases of child abuse and abduction and so on.

Go back to court with a petition for a new custody arrangement, and try this all over again. Or hire a lawyer!

ScottGem · Dec 22, 2014, 08:33 AM

If I read you correctly, the judge is saying that you are lying when you claim you never signed the Parenting Plan? Have you tried calling the clerk as a witness? Is the clerk a notary?

If the judge refuses to believe your statement that you never signed that document, I'm not sure where you can go from here. Hiring a handwriting expert is on possibility but any expert you hire will be assumed to be on your side. And I doubt if the court will hire someone for this. Are the signatures reasonable close? Can you prove you were somewhere else when the papers were signed?

talaniman · Dec 22, 2014, 08:35 AM

You have needed an expert at the law to help you through this from the beginning, and you really do need one now. More expensive but less frustrating.

cdad · Dec 22, 2014, 02:38 PM

I have to ask, Why have you waited 2 years to address the problem ? This all should have been brought to the open 2 years ago. What has changed ?

AK lawyer · Dec 22, 2014, 03:29 PM

Cdad, OP wrote here on October 17th that: " So now after finally going through the entire docket file I see my alleged signature!! ". So it wasn't until October of this year that she discovered the alleged forgery. I have my doubts, however and find it hard to believe that she went to a court hearing without first being sure that she had all of the documents filed in the case, and then wasn't sure that she had signed the plan. I'm thinking that the judge may have got the impression that her uncertainty on that score brings her credibility into issue.

cdad · Dec 22, 2014, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pearlchambers

It had been almost 2 years now since it happened. Do I have an option to file a police report or will they dismiss it?

This is where I started to lose understanding and where the issue of 2 years comes up as the OP seems to have had plenty of time to address the problem. Im wondering what changed recently that brought this all up. Surely they would have seen the parenting plan at the hearing.

Fr_Chuck · Dec 22, 2014, 07:53 PM

In regard to it all. It is easy to prove forgery. But the court is not going to pay to have it done. You will have to hire someone, who will examine your copy, and other samples of hand writing. Then you hire an attorney, who files a motion, to overturn the custody paper work, on grounds of fraud.

The issue here, you will have to pay for it, the state does not pay for it

Pearlchambers · Dec 22, 2014, 09:50 PM

Initially both my ex and I went to court back in 2011. I originally filed Childsupport and was awarded sole custody and Childsupport. My ex and I verbally agreed that he would help keep our daughter while I worked. So in 2013 I dropped Childsupport as he was FINALLY helping me while I worked part time. Just this past sept things were not working out. I was getting the short end of stick!! So I decided to take him back to court to re-enforce the court order. I printed everything off the docket that I thought was important. I kept seeing an order stating "signatures" of both parties and honestly did not realize what it meant. I thought it referenced a past issue. It wasn't until I went to court this year and the judge mentioned signatures that him and I were to follow. I questioned it then. I finally knew to print under ppl which was my first time seeing this parenting plan of which the other party fraudently submitted. I'm 100 percent sure that I did not sign.

Pearlchambers · Dec 22, 2014, 10:02 PM

Question: so with the copy I have. A handwriting expert can examine it? Make a decision that 1: it is not my signature or 2: it was copied 3: where is the best place to hire a handwriting expert.

The judge is simply stating he doesn't think this is a forge because the practice of the clerks obtaining signatures with I.d on the front end. However, the burden to prove that I did not sign this doc is on me.

talaniman · Dec 22, 2014, 10:19 PM

I would hire a lawyer, and let him use his expertise in your behalf. Either proving your claim of forgery, or getting a new order done for you, or BOTH. It may be cheaper than you think, and much more efficient, and effective.

Given your situation its an option well worth exploring.

ScottGem · Dec 23, 2014, 05:32 AM

A lawyer would know where to hire a handwriting expert. So would a private investigator. But handwriting analysis is subjective and even if you get an expert to say it's a forgery, the court does not have to accept it. A better tactic would be to see if you can show that you were not at the courthouse at that day and time.