[excon]

Hello:

I'm NOT Catholic, but if I was, I'd be OFFENDED that Limbaugh, who's NOT Catholic either, INSTRUCTS the Pope about Catholicism. You're NOT???

Conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh ripped into Pope Francis' economic views on the evils of unfettered capitalism.

Limbaugh described the pope's recent document "Evangelii Gaudium" (The Joy of the Gospel), as "dramatically, embarrassingly, puzzlingly wrong."

"This is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope," Limbaugh stated in a program titled "It's Sad How Wrong Pope Francis Is (Unless It's a Deliberate Mistranslation By Leftists)."

excon

[joypulv]

Fortunately Francis has a lot more influence than Rush does.

[tomder55]

The Pope should stick to spirituality . As economist he sucks. He makes the claim that he opposes the liberation theology of his Jesuit order ,but I wonder ...

That being said ,I have not completely read Evangelii Gaudium yet and am sure there is much more to it than what the press has cherry-picked .

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

The Pope should stick to spirituality .

As should the church. However, you don't seem to mind ITS involvement in politics, as long as it's YOUR politics..

I understand... I do.

excon

[tomder55]

If you mean the killing of babies then that goes beyond politics.
I'm willing to give this Pope a pass because his limited experience with 'capitalism' was actually Peronista cronyism.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

I see. If the issue is IMPORTANT enough, the CHURCH should absolutely get involved, but not the POPE.

I understand... Really...

excon

[Wondergirl]

I'll bet this pope reads books and newspapers and talks politics with people. Abortion is the least of the issues about women's rights.

[tomder55]

I'll bet this pope reads books and newspapers and talks politics with people. Abortion is the least of the issues about women's rights.

Papal authority only extends to teaching on economic matters as those economic matters involve questions of morality and faith. Other than that ,the Pope has no special expertise in economics....period ... economics is not an issue where 'infallibility applies.

[Wondergirl]

The pope isn't speaking "ex cathedra" about economics but is rendering his reasoned opinion. It's just an Aoostolic Exhortation. (Popes have opinions, too, just like the rest of us.)

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

economics is not an issue where 'infallibility applies.

Hmmm.. I didn't know you had that much latitude.

excon

[tomder55]

yes ,as WG said ,infallibility is in issues "ex cathedra"
"We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable." (Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Const. de Ecclesiâ Christi, c. iv )

[Wondergirl]

from our friends at Wikipedia --

Regarding historical papal documents, Catholic theologian and church historian Klaus Schatz made a thorough study, published in 1985, that identified the following list of ex cathedra documents (see Creative Fidelity: Weighing and Interpreting Documents of the Magisterium, by Francis A. Sullivan, chapter 6):

"Tome to Flavian", Pope Leo I, 449, on the two natures in Christ, received by the Council of Chalcedon;
Letter of Pope Agatho, 680, on the two wills of Christ, received by the Third Council of Constantinople;
Benedictus Deus, Pope Benedict XII, 1336, on the beatific vision of the just after death rather than only just prior to final judgment;[70]
occasione, Pope Innocent X, 1653, condemning five propositions of Jansen as heretical;
Auctorem fidei, Pope Pius VI, 1794, condemning seven Jansenist propositions of the Synod of Pistoia as heretical;
Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX, 1854, defining the Immaculate Conception;
Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950, defining the Assumption of Mary.

[tomder55]

I am not sure that's correct . I thought that there were only 2 ... and both were about Mary ..... her Immaculate Conception, and her Assumption .
'Professio fidei' (Profession of Faith) issued by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger documented some of the beliefs that were considered infallible by the church . They involve church teachings on Jesus, Mary, sin ,grace, the sacraments, the primacy of the pope, and the doctrinal formulations of the ancient creeds.
For what it's worth ,I consider 'Humanae Vitae '(Human Life) an infallible teaching .

[paraclete]

shouldn't this thead be moved to religious discussions

[Wondergirl]

It's discussion that still has to do with what Limprod said. It wasn't ex cathedra but just a friendly homily. Now if we started talking about holiday (not Christmas) shopping and little black-and-white puppies...that would be off topic. This hasn't been so far.

The Current Events board IS under Member Discussions (I think, will check) ***ADDED Just checked -- yup, it is.

[paraclete]

so is the religious discussions board

[Wondergirl]

Limprod can't talk about religious stuff and disagree with the pope? -- and we can't discuss it?

[talaniman]

OMG!! Let the wingers follow Limprod and Sarah, and Ted. More room for me in heaven.

[excon]

Hello again,

I LOVE that everybody calls him Limprod.. That's a win for me.

excon

[talaniman]

What would you call a fat dope addict that talks crazy all the time and been married 4 times and made no kids? Some call him a leader, I don't! They are as loony as he is.