[jzayara]

My husband and I purchaced a 6 week old male shihtzu three days ago. HE has a crate that is small enough that he can't poop in one place and sleep in another. The first night we got him, we were able to leave him in his crate for several hours while we were gone. No problems: he just went when we took him outside after we got home. The next day, we had to drive 5 hours to our house. Though we had to stop 3 or 4 times for him to do his business, he kept his crate clean. During the night, I got up whenever he fussed and took him out. He didn't mess his crate for the first 48 hours. The only problem was, I was exhausted. I haven't gotten more than 2 consecutive hours of sleep for the past three nights.

I took him to the vet yesterday for a regular checkup. I asked if I should paper train the puppy because he is so young. The vet said that that would just make it harder later. He also said that I should leave the puppy in the crate all night so that he will learn to sleep when we do and so he won't think he is controlling us. Of course, last night he began pooping in his crate. He has messed in it 4 times in the past 12 hours. I have no idea what to do! I called the vet's office and basically got told that I was being too impatient and I should shove off. Should I paper train him? What should I do when he messes his cage?

[MDH]

I am no expert on this subject, I recently got my girls 2 malti-poos and they are now about 12 weeks old.

We started paper training them and it did make it hard later on. When we started trying to get them to go outside they would still try to do it on the carpet.We crate ours every night, and while we are at work all day. It gets better but takes constant training and praise when they do go outside.

Recently they have waited all day till we get home and they will then knock down the door trying to get outside. They have only went in the crate 1 time so far, but we do have to take them out a whole lot in the morning and the evening.

Only way I could do it was to constantly carry them to the door when they were smaller, now they have learned when they can go and run to the door.

It has been the most aggrevating expierience in my life, but they are doing better. Night time I place them and the crate in the laundry room and shut the door, they fussed at first but now settle down in a few minutes and go to sleep. Hope someone with better info comes along to be of more help soon.
Michael

[labman]

Another vote against paper training. I see many questions from people trying to make the transition to outside and have problems.

The best solution to poop in the crate is a rack that keeps the puppy up out of it. It works much better with urine, but is a big help the first month or 2 on bowel movements too. We are still having some problems with our 15 week old Lab/Golden Sheba. Most of our puppies were clean over night long before this. You may want to play around with the feeding time too, so he either has his bowel movement before bedtime, or don't need to go until morning. Another thing is the last trip out at night, make him run around enough to stimulate his body to produce the bowel movement. The crate needs to be part of a complete system.

Much of housebreaking is not training the puppy, but making it easier for your
Puppy, you, and your carpet while its body to catches up to its instincts. At
Around 8 weeks when the puppy goes to its new home, the time from when it
Realizes it has to go, and when it can't wait any longer is a matter of
Seconds. Only time will fix that. You can hardly be expected to be attentive
Enough to avoid all accidents There is no sense punishing the puppy for your
Inattention. It is not fair to punish you either, but you still have to clean
It up if you didn't have the puppy outside in time.

Housebreaking starts before you get home with the new puppy. If you don't have
A crate, buy one. I prefer the more enclosed, den like plastic ones. Skip the
Bedding. At first it gets wet, and later it can be chewed into choking
Hazards. A wire rack in the bottom will help keep the puppy up out of
Accidents at first. They are available with the crates, but a piece of closely
Spaced wire closet shelving from a home supply place is cheaper. If you
Already have a metal crate, covering it may help. Just make sure you use
Something the puppy can't pull in and chew. Dogs that start in crates as
Little puppies, accept them very well. Never leave an unattended puppy loose
In the house. If nobody can watch it, put it in the crate. I suggest letting
The dog have its crate all its life.

Choose a command and spot you want it to use. The less accessible to strays,
The less chance of serious disease. If it is a female, choosing a
Non grassy spot will avoid brown spots later. When you bring it home, take it
To the spot and give it the command in a firm, but friendly voice. Keep
Repeating the command and let the puppy sniff around. If it does anything,
Praise it. Really let it know what a good dog it is and how much you love it,
And maybe a treat. Note, being out there not only means you can praise it,
But it also keeps it from being snatched by a hawk. If it doesn't go, take it
Inside and give it a drink and any meals scheduled. A young puppy will need to
Go out immediately afterward. Go to the spot and follow the above routine.
Praising it if it goes is extremely important. If it doesn't go, take it back
Inside and put it in its crate and try again soon. Do not let it loose in the
House until it does go.

At first it is your responsibility to know and take the puppy out when it
Needs to go. It needs to go out the first thing in the morning, after eating,
Drinking, and sleeping. If it quits playing, and starts running around
Sniffing, it is looking for a place to go. Take it out quickly. You will just
Have to be what I call puppy broke until it is a little older.

By the time most dogs are about 3 months old, they have figured out that if
They go to the door and stand, you will let them out. The praise slowly shifts
To going to the door. Some people hang a bell there for the dog to paw. If
Your dog doesn't figure this out, try praising it and putting it out if it
Even gets near the door. A stern "Bad dog!" is all the punishment that is
Effective, and only when you catch it in the act and are sure you didn't miss
It going to the door. Clean up accidents promptly. I mostly keep the little
Puppies out of the carpeted rooms. Still I need the can of carpet foam
Sometimes. First blot up all the urine you can with a dry towel. Keep moving
It and stepping on it until a fresh area stays dry. A couple big putty knives
Work well on bowel movements. Just slide one under it while holding it with
The other. This gets it up with a minimum of pushing it down into the carpet.
This works with even relatively soft ones, vomit, dirt from over turned house
Plants, or anything else from solids to thick liquids. Finish up with a good
Shot of carpet foam. Note, do not let the puppy lick up the carpet foam.
Once the dog is reliably housebroken, your carpet may need a good steam cleaning.

Many people strongly strongly push cleaning up all evidence of past accidents. I am slower to suggest that. Dogs will return top the same spot if they can find it. When you see one sniffing the spot, that is your clue to run it out.

[jzayara]

Thanks for the advice. :o Here are a couple more questions: :confused:

Would a cookie sheet work for the bottom of the crate?

He has a blanket. Should I leave it with him when I put him in for the night?

How often should I get up during the night? Every time he fusses?

[jzayara]

Also, I have been putting water in his food to soften it up. (He has 4 teeth!) Could this cause diarrhea?

[labman]

The cookie sheet would make it easier to clean a plastic crate. My favorite technique is to take it outside and hose it off. Not in this weather. It will co nothing to keep him clean. Perhaps you could use it and the wire rack. As long as you house is warm, he shouldn't need a blanket.

I have wondered about using wood shavings like a gerbil cage. I worry about the puppy eating them. Of course as long as it is too soft to make splinters, wood doesn't seem to hurt them.

If you don't let him have too much water in the evening, maybe once a night should be enough.

4 teeth? Are you sure he is 6 weeks old? Go ahead with the water. His body should regulate his thirst, and just drink a little less.

[cecyks]

I got a shih-tzu mix in June when he was 8wks old. I was traumatized by the amount of attention he needed on the potty training.

I live in an apartment condo, so for me to take my dog to the street, I have to go through the elevator, very long process. At first, I can’t even tell he needs to go potty. I was like a zombie for about 6 weeks. If you don’t work full-time, potty process can be much much shorter for you.

I am no expert, but now I’ve done it & realized the mistakes I made, if I had to do this all over again, this is what I would do. I would train my pup on wee-wee-pad, because before he got all his shots, it’s not a good idea to expose him to the outdoor unless it’s your own backyard, and besides, if you work all day long, that would be where he could go instead of in the crate. He was well trained on going potty whenever I want him to go. I would take him onto a pavement surface (street or private garden), and ask him to “go potty.” Being consistent is a very important key to the success of potty training. Praise him with hugs and kisses and small treats afterwards, he will get it very quickly. I use baby carrots for mine, he loves it!

Timing: At first you might not be able to tell that he wants to go, but usually is when he starts to smell the ground in a faster pace and maybe going in a circle if he wants to do number 2. If you can catch him before he starts to go or in the act, move him to wherever you want him to go, such as a pad, out to the backyard, etc. He will get it. If you can’t tell when he needs to go, & since yours is still very young, you need to take him out each 1.5hr, and slowly change into every 2hrs, 2.5hrs, etc. Take him out after each meal and play is a must! Scream bloody murder at him if he’s doing it at the wrong place, they just know what “bad boy” means, really. Never never ever scream at him if you don’t catch him in time. ONLY VERBAL PUNISHMENT, no hitting or pushing his nose into the urine, it doesn’t work – a friend of mine has tested out! At night, take him whenever he wants to go, but never give him food rewards during this time, & no playing. He should go right back into the crate. After your dog completes all shots, take him out & reward him with some soft tiny yummy treats after he goes, let him know mommy is so happy that he goes to the right place to go potty.

Location: Always go to the same place while training him. My pup was always able to go on the pad when he was confined in the kitchen, until I expanded his space too much too fast. Expand your pup’s living quarter bit by bit if you can, because dogs are den animals, they won’t make a mess at where they go to sleep; if they do, there must be a reason why. Think about what makes more sense to you with your lifestyle, daily routines, etc. Remember, consistency is very important. A lot of people who live in the city train their dogs to go inside the house on pads/paper. Different people have different needs. When I go to work, my pup goes on wee-wee pad; first thing in the morning and when I come home in the evening, he knows we will be going for a walk & he can go on his “official potty break”. Now he doesn’t even go during the day, he waits until I get home.

Crate vs. kitchen: I kept my pup in the kitchen with vinyl flooring so it’s easy to clean. I placed a baby gate to prevent him from going to the carpet. I couldn’t do crate training because I work all day, & can’t check up every 2 hrs. You are not supposed to leave your pup in crate for more than 2 hrs each time. Kitchen with a gate worked perfect for me, although crate training might have speeded things up. & when he made it over the gate one day, he proved to us that he wouldn’t make a mess anymore, gate-free! I kept my pup in the crate at night, & one night he started to whine & not wanted to stay in the crate, & he didn’t make a mess after that either!

7 months: this seems like a magic time for most dog owner to combat potty training FULLY. I did it when mine was 5-1/2 months. Accident happens. Don’t stress yourself out. Trainers told me pups should be fully trained when they reach 4 months of age, I think this can only happen if you don’t work & keep an eye on them all day long.

Hope this helps.