[paraclete]

I see gun violence is back on the agenda and yet no one wants to talk about it

After Navy Yard shootings, has America grown numb to gun violence? - Courant.com)

Once again innocents have been slaughtered and someone please tell me that if pistol packin Pete had been there he would have stopped it before anyone got hurt

[smoothy]

Nobody is surprised when a black guy kills people... its expected. If he was alive he'd probably be blaming it on something that ended over 170 years ago.

Look at Chicago's crime stats...

[tomder55]

If you read the reporting that has come out about the Navy Yard shooting ,there is a clear link to mental health issues. Part of the reason that there is silence I suppose is that the killer didn't use a so called assault rifle . He started with the gun that Joe Biden thinks is a better alternative... a shot gun.

[paraclete]

Chicago shooting: 13 people shot at South Side basketball court - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Yes the Chicago crime stats are appalling and I doubt the end of slavery is to blame or are you one of those who think if you could keep blacks employed in that way your social problems would be at an end

I understand that there is a certain anger that surrounds the unemployed and the disenfranchised but there is also violence that surrounds drugs and gangs. Even the work of your own President couldn't stem the tide in Chicago and a fresh approach is needed, one that starts with coralling the guns and other weapons and putting cops in the streets.

Wherever you have disadvantage you have a breeding ground for these problems but they are only symtermatic of a wider problem, the idea that any person has a right to use a gun, just because 230 years ago someone thought it was a good idea.

[tomder55]

In NY a judge ruled that stop and frisk was unconstitutional . We have had an immediate uptick in gun violence as a result .

[paraclete]

if you read the reporting that has come out about the Navy Yard shooting ,there is a clear link to mental health issues. Part of the reason that there is silence I suppose is that the killer didn't use a so called assault rifle . He started out with the gun that Joe Biden thinks is a better alternative ... a shot gun.

Seriously Tom it doesn't matter what weapon he used, what matters is that it has happened again, and again and no one does anything about it. You are desensitised to it and your politicians are parrallised by the gun lobby.

Did he use a multishot shot gun? Would there have been less casualties if his choice of weapon was restricted and you want to hide behind mental health issues, in today's society because of drugs you have to know that mental health is a serious issue everywhere, all the more reason to connect the dots and remove the guns to an arsenal

[paraclete]

in NY a judge ruled that stop and frisk was unconstitutional . We have had an immediate uptick in gun violence as a result .

It is time to give your judges some sensible guidelines or refer all such issues to the Supreme Court so local judges cannot stick their beak in

[smoothy]

Chicago shooting: 13 people shot at South Side basketball court - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Yes the Chicago crime stats are appauling and I doubt the end of slavery is to blame or are you one of those who think if you could keep blacks employed in that way your social problems would be at an end

I understand that there is a certain anger that surrounds the unemployed and the disenfranchised but there is also violence that surrounds drugs and gangs. Even the work of your own President couldn't stem the tide in Chicago and a fresh approach is needed, one that starts with coralling the guns and other weapons and putting cops in the streets.

Whereever you have disadvantage you have a breeding ground for these problems but they are only symtermatic of a wider problem, the idea that any person has a right to use a gun, just because 230 years ago someone thought it was a good idea.

That's not the problem... you've got blacks that liberals have been teaching for generations that they are entitled to a free ride... and nothing they do they are responsible for.

And most of them aren't even eligible to own a gun in the first place.

If it wasn't a gun it would be a knife... if it wasn't a knife it would be a club, if it wasn't a club it would be with their fists...

[paraclete]

That's not the problem... you've got blacks that liberals have been teaching for generations that they are entitled to a free ride... and nothing they do they are responsible for.

Your problems stem from social disadvantage after all it is only fifty years since you truly started liberating them and with most of the jobs exported by your Job Creators you are reaping the whirlwind

And most of them aren't even eligible to own a gun in the first place.

If it wasn't a gun it would be a knife... if it wasn't a knife it would be a club, if it wasn't a club it would be with their fists...

So you are saying is blacks are an unruly lot, a xenophobic and racist statement, but perhaps your argument has merit. That they might not be entitled to guns in a nation that doesn't restrict gun ownership in a manner that prevents them from owning and using a gun is a moot point.

One point though Tom is it somewhat difficult to attack twelve people with a knife, you have to be in a frenzy.

What you don't see is the general availability of guns makes it possible for them to get one, legally, or illegally, much more easily. We have blacks here too, but they rarely settle their differences with guns or lash out against their circumstances with guns because it is much more difficult to obtain them. No, they use clubs, shovels and axes but only against their own. By the way we also restrict the ownership of large knives

[tomder55]

Before anyone ridicules the messenger ;they should read the op-ed and consider it.
As Freedom Destroys Itself | National Review Online
A decent and moral society is guided by voluntary self-restraint. The less moral we are, the more legalistic we become. But more laws can't protect a civilization that has lost its way. At most, they're just tiny speed bumps for a runaway truck.

[Wondergirl]

before anyone ridicules the messenger ;they should read the op-ed and consider it.
As Freedom Destroys Itself | National Review Online
A decent and moral society is guided by voluntary self-restraint. The less moral we are, the more legalistic we become. But more laws can’t protect a civilization that has lost its way. At most, they’re just tiny speed bumps for a runaway truck.

And it's hard to shove the toothpaste back into the tube.

[paraclete]

[IA decent and moral society is guided by voluntary self-restraint. The less moral we are, the more legalistic we become. But more laws can’t protect a civilization that has lost its way. At most, they’re just tiny speed bumps for a runaway truck.[/I]

Let us dissect this for a moment

A decent and moral society is guided by voluntary self-restraint.

The very absence of self restraint tells us something about the quality of society, therefore that which sees itsself as decent and moral is dilluded and as the piece says laws don't have impact because only decent and moral people abide by them. How this relates to the gun debate is the society that thought there was a public good in a right to bear arms was decent and moral but is long gone, replaced by a heddonist, largely lawless society that is very legalistic to preseve rights they are not entitled to. They are about to be hit by the runaway truck if it hasn't already happened

[tomder55]

And it's hard to shove the toothpaste back into the tube.

The alternative is the steady decline to either anarchy or tyranny.

[paraclete]

the alternative is the steady decline to either anarchy or tyranny.

Tom I'm unsure how you define either of those but 50,000 deaths a year must surely beg the question as to whether a red line has been crossed

[tomder55]

From the op-ed

The first thing politicians ask after these tragedies is essentially: “What can we do to limit the freedom of the people?”

And that is the wrong question. The question we should be asking is: “What can we do to nurture and support a people capable of living in freedom?”

[NeedKarma]

So by your definition you view countries with gun laws as having people with little freedom? Seems they enjoy a freedom from a non-stop barrage of american style mass killings.

[tomder55]

The killing in Chi town was done with illegal guns . So much for your gun laws .

[NeedKarma]

Guns can easily be gotten outside that small enclave and brought in. Is that your only argument?

[paraclete]

the killing in Chi town was done with illegal guns . So much for your gun laws .

In your opinion all killings are done by illegal guns so on that basis there is no reason to possess legal guns

[NeedKarma]

Regardless of laws americans will always find ways to be violent to each other.