[shoegal]

I understand your attempt to try and convince people that tanning beds are safe, but I'm sorry, you're wrong. Ask any dermatologist, ask any doctor of any sort, and they'll tell you the truth that you need to hear. Too much UV rays can kill. Please stop trying to convince people otherwise. You keep asking for proof. Well, I don't carry medical records in my pocket or scientific facts with me, but look it up, ask a doctor, ask a skin cancer patient. They'll all tell you the truth. You're not convincing anyone. The public has not been misinformed, but they will be if you keep trying to tell them your opinions. Please stop trying to persuade people in doing something that can potentially ruin their lives. If I can save a life, here it is. Don't listen to uvtalk, please wear sunscreen and keep protected from the sun. Avoid sunburns and tanning beds. If you want more info, you can message me. Uv talk, I would suggest not talking about this anymore. :)

[Clough]

I'm not here to argue but merely point out that the public is and has been mislead regarding uv exposure whether it is from the sun or artificial means.

Mislead in what way, please?

[Hewerd]

How much do I have to explain to you?? I get my facts from medical reports as well. The medical report of my dead best friend from kindergarten, my dead aunt who practically raised me, my dead boyfriend who thought being tan would help his career. You may have textbook information, but that obvioulsy hasn't taught you enough. Like I said, you'd think differently if you lost loved ones to skin cancer.

Do you know anyone that died from something other than using tanning beds?

Sorry about your friends and relatives, but don't assume that anyone that ever used a tanning bed and dies, died from tanning.

One of the really sad things is that, for 20+ years you have heard how horrible UV exposure is for you. Now, we are seeing widespread Vitamin D deficiency all over the industrialized world. The best way to fix this problem is with UV exposure, whether from the sun or from tanning beds. If I thought you would read it, I would show you research that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine a few months ago by Dr. Michael Holick.

It is estimated by experts researching in this field that over 60% of the cancer deaths that will occur based on current trends could be AVOIDED by moderate UV exposure such as from the sun and from moderate, nonburning use of tanning beds. Sorry, but you have been lied to by the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture sunscreen and the American Academy of Dermatology.

[uvtalk]

Sunscreen Mfgs Sued - UVtalk
Skin Treatment Research Reveals That Sunscreens Can be Damaging - UVtalk
More info on sunscreens - UVtalk
Most sunscreen products actually *promote* cancer - UVtalk
Sunscreen ads lack evidence - UVtalk

I can't really spend the time to re-hash medical studies etc. here, if you want to know more, visit the sites I have mentioned. I'm sure they would love to debate this issue with you further.

Take care.

[Hewerd]

Guardian of the genome protein found to underlie skin tanning - 2007 Press Releases - Dana-Farber Cancer Institute

This link is from Harvard University cancer center.

"By prompting the skin to tan in response to ultraviolet light from the sun, it deters the development of melanoma skin cancer, the fastest-increasing form of cancer in the world."

[Clough]

Now that this thread has been continued from the original date that it was posted, and that would be March 26, 2007 at 09:10 P.M. I would think that it would be a good idea to continue it and finish it. I don't really think that this is so much of a debate, but that we are not all on the same page here in terms of our thoughts and ideas.

I'm not against tanning beds or having skin being exposed to the sun. But, people do need to know the risk factors involved in overdoing any activity, especially where the final cost of doing the activity in excess might be just such a thing as death.

We all know that participation in either of these activities could potentially lead to an abuse of the activities, to the extent though, that it could become a hazard to one's health in some way.

What is typed in the responses to the original question here is going to be getting really excellent exposure in searches on the Internet. It will come up, guaranteed! I would suggest that we come to some kind of understanding as to what are talking about here. I sense that it's not really so much a for and against issue, but an understanding as to what we are talking about. I would think that the word "moderate" and "using the sun's or a tanning bed's rays in moderation" should be a part of the conversation.

Drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation for some people is okay. Having some exposure to the sun is okay. Using a tanning bed on occasion and in moderation is okay. If you kiss another person on the lips too much, then your lips or the other person's lips might get chapped. Too much kissing on the skin of another, and they might get a hickie or hickey. That could lead to cancer - maybe. The more times someone is successful at burglarizing a home, the more likely they are to get caught. In the U.S. for just that crime, the person committing it won't receive death. But, they will be very uncomfortable for a potentially long period. In the health/gym classes for the high school girls, they keep drilling it into them how if you have sex, the more times you have sex, or do so without protection, then you might get or are more likely to get pregnant. It goes on ad nauseum, and some of the girls still don't seem to get it! You know that there are plenty of other examples of things where a person might overdo some kind of thing or activity that carries with it potential risks.

It's all about weighing the cost and benefits. Making sound, wise choices. Doing something not in excess because you have proof and have been presented information that shows you what can happen if you do overdo something. Presenting information. Understanding and then assimilating the information. Pursuing and reaching a goal so that you can lead a happy and productive life. Arriving at a mutual understanding with another... etc.

[Clough]

One of the really sad things is that, for 20+ years you have heard how horrible UV exposure is for you. Now, we are seeing widespread Vitamin D deficiency all over the industrialized world. The best way to fix this problem is with UV exposure, whether from the sun or from tanning beds. If I thought you would read it, I would show you research that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine a few months ago by Dr. Michael Holick.

I do wish that you would post it, or at least a link to it, if it is available.

I do take exception to the statement above that

The best way to fix this problem is with UV exposure, whether from the sun or from tanning beds.

Where is the reliable source for the statement? And, where is the proof to back it up?

There are other sources of vitamin D.

The quote below is from the following site: CNN Food Central - Resources: Vitamin Guide

Vitamin D (calciferol):

Functions: Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin that promotes the absorption of calcium and phosphorus and helps deposit these minerals in bones and teeth to make them strong.

Deficiency problems: Greater risk of osteoporosis and osteomalacia (softening of the bones). Children can develop rickets or defective bone growth.

Sources: Vitamin D is known as the "sunshine" vitamin, because your body can produce it after sunlight or ultraviolet light hits the skin. Food sources include cheese, eggs, some fish (such as salmon and sardines), fortified milk, breakfast cereals and margarine.

Excess amounts: Can lead to kidney stones or kidney damage, weak muscles and bones, excessive bleeding and other problems. Excessive amounts usually come from supplements, not food or overexposure to sunlight.

You see, there is not only other sources available for this vitamin, but also a risk in getting too much of it.

[Hewerd]

Ok. Now that we are past the "if you use a tanning bed, you are going to die" attitude, let's talk about the original question.

When using a tanning bed, start slow. Don't burn. Production of melanin is not accelerated by burning. Different beds have differing ratios of UVA and UVB. Each bed will have an exposure schedule posted on the bed. Follow it.

Visit a salon and ask for a tour and an explanation of the equipment. If you don't feel like the attendant knows what they are talking about, keep looking. Some reddening may be normal due to the heat of the bed, but if you are red the next day, you stayed too long. Wait for the red to fade before you go back for another session.

Good luck with the tan.

[Clough]

Too much UV rays can kill.

That indeed, is the key here. We need to come to some kind of understanding. We haven't as of yet.

If you have read anything else that I posted earlier, you would know that I too, have had first hand experience with the agony of skin cancer.

[Clough]

Different beds have differing ratios of UVA and UVB. Each bed will have an exposure schedule posted on the bed.

Is such a thing as the ratio adjustable on each bed?

[Hewerd]

Here is a link to where I have saved a PDF file of the article. I don't think the NEJM has a link where you can view it. The latest from Dr. Holick - UVtalk

As to why UV exposure is the best way to receive your vitamin D, like you said, vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin (Actually more of a hormone than a vitamin, but that doesn't matter). You can not overdose on Vitamin D by UV exposure. You can overdose through oral supplements (not likely, but possible).

You will get a much better explanation from the link I provided. Also, it appears that the recommendations that have been published for years is not adequate to get the full benefit of the cancer fighting ability of vitamin D. You need to have serum levels of over 50 ng/ml of 25(OH)D. After you read the article, if I can point you to other research, you can find me at www.uvtalk.com I am Bill over there, but couldn't use that as a username here. Seems it was already taken.

Glad you are open minded enough to take a look. I promise I'll be civil. Come over any time and we can discuss it further.

[Hewerd]

Is such a thing as the ratio adjustable on each bed?

Not user adjustable, if that's what you mean. The UV ratio is determined by the lamps used. The phosphor coating on the inside of the lamp is what determines the UVB output of the lamp. Then, there are the high pressure beds (with the square lamps) that work on a different principle. They produce a broad spectrum UV light and there is a filter placed over the lamp to eliminate the bandwidth of light that you don't want to expose the user to.

Is that what you were asking?

[Clough]

Not user adjustable, if that's what you mean. The UV ratio is determined by the lamps used. The phosphor coating on the inside of the lamp is what determines the UVB output of the lamp. Then, there are the high pressure beds (with the square lamps) that work on a different principle. They produce a broad spectrum UV light and there is a filter placed over the lamp to eliminate the bandwidth of light that you don't want to expose the user to.

Is that what you were asking?

Yes, that is what I was asking.

[Clough]

How does someone know when their skin is getting burned by being in a tanning bed?

[Hewerd]

Wow! You are asking some very good questions. Your salon should be able to categorize your skin type for you. You start slowly, based on a chart the manufacturer of the bed provides. It is based on how much UVB the bed produces per minute. You gradually increase your session time and, as I said earlier, if you get red after your session, you stayed too long. I mention this because many people have the mistaken belief that they have to burn to tan. Simply not true. The burning (erythema) and tanning (melanogenisis) are too different processes. Different people tan differently.

You also hear people that say, "If I feel like I'm burning, I'll stop and get out." By the time you feel like you are burning, it's too late. Don't try to second guess the exposure schedule.

[Hewerd]

So, I'm curious. How many people actually checked out the links that were provided? Did we reach any understanding of the subject or just get tired of arguing?