[JoeT777]

Why do other Christian faiths not Honor Mother their Salvation in the same way as Catholics do?

JoeT

[JudyKayTee]

Because they don't believe" mother is their "salvation."

Do Catholics believe that Mary is their salvation?

[JoeT777]

Let me explain my question. Catholics express their faith in God as being Three Persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, "consubstantial [homoousios] to the Father". That is to say that the Three Persons of the Trinity are one substance. The long and Short is we have one God. Further, the Catholic faith holds that Christ is One Person subsisting in two natures, a Divine nature and a human nature hypostatically joined [perfectly joined], not conjoined (there is a big difference between conjoined and perfectly joined).

It can be said that Mary gave birth to the 'Person' of Christ, who received her flesh and whose blood is unique to the contribution of the Holy Spirit who 'overshadowed' Mary. Thus, it can be said that the blood of Eternal Life literally flowed through Christ's veins. If Mary were God's presence destroys corruption. Logically, unless Mary was Immaculately conceived the flesh would have inherited Adam's sin the blood would have been tainted. Furthermore, unless Mary was Immaculate, she could not have born the blood of Christ.

Why don't all Christians honor Mary as the Mother of God, the Mother of your Salvation? And having literally encompassed God within her womb not have remain Virgin (sinless). Could we not view Mary as a type of ark? If we view Mary in any other way it seems to me that Christ is born a man and 'transforms' into Divinity or a God wearing a 'man' suite.

JoeT

[JoeT777]

Because they don't believe" mother is their "salvation."

Do Catholics believe that Mary is their salvation?

I didn't say Mother salvation, I said Mother of your Salvation; Is Christ not your Saviour?

[Wondergirl]

Logically, unless Mary was Immaculately conceived the flesh would have inherited Adam's sin the blood would have been tainted. Furthermore, unless Mary was Immaculate, she could not have born the blood of Christ.

With God all things are possible. He caused Jesus to be immaculately conceived in sinful Mary's womb. Mary didn't have to be sinless. It's called a miracle.

[JudyKayTee]

You said "Why do other Christian faiths not Honor Mother their Salvation in the same way as Catholics do?"

Mother their salvation sounds like shorthand.

And my religious beliefs have nothing to do with this thread.

You have an amazing number of threads about Mary - why? Have you no other religious interest?

[JoeT777]

With God all things are possible. He caused Jesus to be immaculately conceived in sinful Mary's womb. Mary didn't have to be sinless. It's called a miracle.

This sounds like God climbed into a fetus. I can agree that in God all things are possible, but this is a matter of an accomplished fact in our reality, "he Word was made flesh".

JoeT.

[Wondergirl]

This sounds like God climbed into a fetus. I can agree that in God all things are possible, but this is a matter of an accomplished fact in our reality, "he Word was made flesh".

JoeT.

My point is that Jesus (not Mary) was conceived without sin. Mary's sinful condition didn't matter.

[JoeT777]

You said "Why do other Christian faiths not Honor Mother their Salvation in the same way as Catholics do?"

Mother their salvation sounds like shorthand.

It wasn't meant as shorthand. It was meant to distinguish between the way Catholics honor Mary and the way other do not.

And my religious beliefs have nothing to do with this thread.

How many different TRUE religions do you think there are?

You have an amazing number of threads about Mary - why? Have you no other religious interest?

Its been a couple of years since I've posted. What do you suppose the significance in the number of threads concerning the Mother of God?

JoeT

[JoeT777]

My point is that Jesus (not Mary) was conceived without sin. Mary's sinful condition didn't matter.

Then he would have been born with the stain of Adam and would not have been the Perfect Lamb for the atonement of sins.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

Then he would have been born with the stain of Adam and would not have been the Perfect Lamb for the atonement of sins.

JoeT

No, God did a miracle and Jesus was conceived sinless. He didn't have to go back a generation to Mary, but cut to the chase and made only Jesus sinless.

[JoeT777]

No, God did a miracle and Jesus was conceived sinless. He didn't have to go back a generation to Mary, but cut to the chase and made only Jesus sinless.

God doesn't have to go anywhere. Time can be thought of as a succession from 'before' to 'after'. Time exists within eternity therefore St. Thomas Aquinas explains eternity can be throughout of as not having either beginning or end. Or, eternity has no succession at all. As God exists in eternity He exists in all time simultaneously. Thus, God didn't 'go back', He was there at both event simultaneously. We however, existing in the natural world, experience the same events as a succession.

It was in this way that Christ was her Saviour as well. Which by the way makes Mary the First Catholic Christian.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

God caused Jesus to be conceived without sin in a sinful Mary.

The Catholic Church isn't mentioned until Ignatius of Antioch around 110.

[JoeT777]

Maybe I should have added at least in one or another of my posts that one species can produce offspring of a higher species. Assuming that a turtle is of a lower species than a rabbit, turtles cannot give birth to rabbits. Likewise rabbits cannot give birth to man. Thus, it is impossible for an old Eve to give birth to a New Adam. So to speak, they are two different species.

Men after the fall of Adam lack 'original justice' which is an enlightened knowledge of God and fortitude and the strength and fortitude to reason in a way that moves love and hatred, desire and aversion, joy and sadness toward God's good (concupiscence). A lack of original justice is the stain inherited from Adam known as original sin. (Cf. Romans 5:19)

Therefore, the Immaculate Conception was God re-establishing His original justice in Mary at the moment of her conception, her salvation. In giving birth to Christ her offspring was of the species of Adam before the fall. Thus, we hear Scripture refer to Christ as the New Adam as the "Savior of the human race" giving us a means to be re-born as inheritors of the Flesh and Blood of the New Adam.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

Thus, it is impossible for an old Eve to give birth to a New Adam.

Of course, it's possible. We are talking about a God who is omnipotent. He could have simply said "Poof" and made a full-grown Jesus appear, but for some reason He decided to do it the way He did, having a sinful human be the mother of His Son Jesus. And that makes it all the more real and engaging for us, that a person just like us could become the mother of the Savior.

And there is no Scriptural backing for Mary as sinless (and why stop with her? Wouldn't her mother and all the women in that line have to be sinless?). The Immaculate Conception is Catholic Church teaching/tradition and has never been adopted by Protestants.

[JoeT777]

Of course, it's possible. We are talking about a God who is omnipotent. He could have simply said "Poof" and made a full-grown Jesus appear, but for some reason He decided to do it the way He did, having a sinful human be the mother of His Son Jesus. And that makes it all the more real and engaging for us, that a person just like us could become the mother of the Savior.

And there is no Scriptural backing for Mary as sinless (and why stop with her? wouldn't her mother and all the women in that line have to be sinless?). The Immaculate Conception is Catholic Church teaching/tradition and has never been adopted by Protestants.

Wouldn't a 'poof-ed' god be a created god? I don't think the Jews would have fallen for a 'poof-ing' god. I'm not even a Jew and I don't fall for it.

There doesn't have to be Scriptural 'evidence' because it is Mary through whom we see the Real Presence of Christ. Mary's person is a singularity in eternity through whom our salvation proceeds to us. St. Bernardine explained how we go through Mary to find the Reality of Chris; "as no line proceeds from the centre of a circle which does not pass through its circumference; thus no grace comes to us from Jesus, who is the centre of every good, that does not pass through Mary, who encompassed him after she had received him in her womb." [St. Liguori, The Glories of Mary]

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

Wouldn't a 'poof-ed' god be a created god? I don't think the Jews would have fallen for a 'poof-ing' god. I'm not even a Jew and I don't fall for it.

That might be why He didn't do it that way.

[JoeT777]

That might be why He didn't do it that way.

Are you saying that Christ is a god-creature created by God? I don't get your meaning.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

Are you saying that Christ is a god-creature created by God? I don't get your meaning.

JoeT

Huh? No, I am not saying that at all! I go with the Nicene Creed. Begotten, not made.

[JoeT777]

Huh? No, I am not saying that at all! I go with the Nicene Creed. Begotten, not made.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood. It seemed you were suggesting something else.

JoeT