[LucyVanPelt]

My 18 year old son was in an accident on his way to school yesterday. He was behind a garbage truck waiting to pass. There was oncoming traffic and the garbage man was on the other side of the road putting back the garbage cans and when the traffic cleared he crossed the road and waved to my son to pass. My son looked both ways and started to pass when the driver behind my son turned up out of nowhere and they collided. My sons car was clipped on the blinker/headlight area and his front panel was ripped off. The other car was hit between the front and back door. There is no doubt in my sons mind that the guy behind him just gunned it considering how fast he showed up. The Ohio State Patrol responded and ticketed both drivers for failure to use turn signal and for not beeping their horns as they passed (I know, crazy law but it's right here OR 4511.27). My son got 2 points and $140 fine. He has never had a traffic violation before. I've put a call into the garbage company to see if they could track down the driver who may have witnessed the accident but not sure if that will help. Would you waiver or take your chance in court over this?

[Fr_Chuck]

Since the ticket can effect who pays for damages and who is at fault I would fight it personally

[LucyVanPelt]

Since the ticket can effect who pays for damages and who is at fault I would fight it personally

Do we need to lawyer up or does our insurance company get involved? Believe it or not, no one in our family has ever been in an accident before so we're completely clueless.

[JudyKayTee]

That's not the law in NY - but I do beep the horn when a vehicle is stopped and I'm passing. I appreciate that that doesn't help you any.

Good luck - I just don't think that anything the garbage employee says will change the ticket. It might change responsibility for the accident.

Isn't Lucy VanPelt the Peanuts Lucy? Love the name!

[AK lawyer]

ticketed both drivers for failure to use turn signal and for not beeping their horns

It appears that OP's son is guilty. If he admitted to the officer that he failed to signal and beep his horn, I see no point in fighting the ticket.

I am guessing that "waiver" has to do with paying the fine without the necessity of going to court and making the government prove the charges, and nothing to do with the civil liability aspects. You are quite correct about the “look but not see” phenomenon. But I suspect that the charges don't require proof that failure to signal (with turn lights and horn) resulted in the accident.

Guilt regarding the charges on the ticket does not necessarily establish civil liablility. The other driver could, in theory, be determined to be negligent anyway. Hopefully, the insurance companies have been notified.

[ScottGem]

Lucy, I would have your son go down and "fight" the ticket. I put fight in quotes because, in my experience, Traffic court will usually bargain down a ticket if the defendant appears. I agree, your son is probably guilty of the actions he was ticketed for. But you want to avoid adding points to his license if at all possible. What will usually happen is the traffic court will have him plead guilty to a lesser charge which will add no points and may even be a lower fine.

[LucyVanPelt]

We contacted our insurance company the same day. Thanks for all your opinions. It just angers me because my son is a very cautious driver and this would have never happened if the guy behind him wasn't in such a damn hurry. Folks out there need to slow down and think before they act.

[LucyVanPelt]

ScottGem,

I think that's what we will do. What harm could it do. I'm not concerned about the fines but I'm very concerned about the points.

[LucyVanPelt]

Do you think it's worth the effort to get a statement from the garbage truck driver if he witnessed the accident? Or would that be more for our insurance liability.

[ScottGem]

The worst that could happen is he's charged the 2 points and the fine. So yes I don't think there is any harm.

I think it would definitely be worth getting a statement from the sanitation engineer in either case. You may not get a statement that he waived your son on, but he may have noticed that the other car swung around your son.

[JudyKayTee]

My only suggestion re: witnesses is that the insurance company or an investigator speak with a witness. Involved parties tend to "burn" the witness (make him wary) and, thus, lose any helpful info.

I realize this isn't about liability but if insurance is involved, that's the company that should do the questioning with an eye toward responsibility for the accident which will lead to helpful info about the ticket.

[LucyVanPelt]

Makes sense. Thank you for your help.

[LucyVanPelt]

My sons court date is tomorrow and I am wondering if I should postpone the court date due to a couple factors. I downloaded the crash report but the drivers written statements were not included because the main office receives these reports through the mail and not electronically. It could take another week before I have access to these reports according to the main office. Also, my insurance company has contacted the garbage company in regards to the matter but has yet to hear back.

I'm really not sure if the above two matters will really effect the outcome. My son is going to plead no contest as he did break the law by not using his turn signal nor beeping his horn as he passed.

I writing out what my son should say but I'm not sure what to include. So far I have: "Your Honor, I am pleading no contest due to the fact that I did not use my turn signal nor did I beep my horn as I attempted to pass that garbage truck." Should he continue on with the fact that the garbage man directed him to pass and before he proceeded he looked both ways and did not see the other car overtaking him and he's unsure whether it's due to a blind spot, rain, or the other drivers speed or a combination of all three . And then end with something like "Your Honor, I have no prior traffic violations and due to the circumstances of this collision I was hoping I could have the points dropped and the fine lowered." I'm totally just winging this, am I on the right track? Thanks for your help.

[JudyKayTee]

I don't think "yes, I broke the law BUT ..." is helpful to his cause. I would not explain. Yes, he broke the law, yes, he learned his lesson, yes, he is regretful and it won't happen again.

Who/what/where is totally unimportant in this criminal matter.

This is like pleading guilty to speeding BUT having a good reason why you were speeding. The Court does not care.

What do you believe is on the witness statements that could change the course of these traffic citations? I think you are confusing criminal (ticket) and civil (lawsuit for injuries/loss).

[LucyVanPelt]

Yes, I guess I am getting the two confused. Thank you. Here's the rewrite: "Your Honor, I am pleading no contest. I am regretful in not using my turn signal and not beeping my horn as I passed the garbage truck. I learned my lesson and it will not happen again. I'm hoping for leniency because I have no prior traffic violations and I am a honor roll student. Thank you, your Honor. Is this the right approach? Thanks again.

[smearcase]

Drop the regrets out of that statement. Stress that he was waved on by the trash truck operator, that a vehicle passed him before he could get around the trash truck and that that he has had no prior problems. Based on my experiences, the judge may not even give an opportunity to make a statement. The judge may ask a question or maybe not, but I would recommend that anyone with a good record go to court, when points are involved especially.

[JudyKayTee]

Smearcase, I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing with you. I'm disagreeing from the standpoint of my employment as a liability investigator for over 30 years - for Attorneys, not insurance companies, because that's a different ballgame. I investigate, I get called to testify. It's routine in my life. I venture to say I'm in Court more often in 1 month than the "average" person who is not an Attorney is in Court in a lifetime.

It is the responsibility of the driver to obey all traffic rules/regulations and make certain that his vehicle is operated in a safe manner at all times. The garbage employee was not the cause of breaking the law. Inexperience is the cause.

This could have been a whole lot worse.

I think the statement as revised is absolutely spot on! And the presence of the mother in the Courtroom, showing support, agreeing that her son has learned a very valuable lesson goes a very long way.

Again - I do not know your profession or experience, but I am answering from mine.

And, yes, I testify in both civil and crminal cases because one very often overflows onto the other.

[smearcase]

My profession is retired State Highway Engineer overseeing construction of highways for 35 years, including all elements of traffic control in construction zones and installation of permanent roadway markings, signage, signal systems and all other aspects of highway engineering. I was trained and certified in maintenance of traffic and am a retired certified transportation technologist as certified by the National Institute of Certification of Engineering Technologies (NICET). Training was updated twice or more times yearly. I have testified in court on behalf of the State Highway Administration, and for the last 15 years of my career, I was the engineering liaison (in my district) with the state highway office of the assistant attorney general attorneys, in all matters related to accident lawsuits against the administration and its contractors and construction claims mostly for additional compensation on state highway construction projects.
The trash truck employee here is performing a similar role as a flagman on a highway construction project. A flagman has authority granted though the process of having a contract with the state. The contractor gets authority to block a lane through the same contract. I do not know where a trash hauler gets the authority to wave a vehicle across a double yellow set of lines, although I fully realize that they do it all the time everywhere. But for the trash hauler interfering with the flow of traffic, there is no incident here. He plays a role.

[JudyKayTee]

I still don't understand how anyone telling the driver to disobey the law makes the failure to obey the law other than the driver's fault.

The driver has to show due diligence. That didn't happen.

Did the garbage employee tell the driver not to blow the horn?

We're in different States. Maybe that's the difference. Maybe it's a difference because I'm an independent and you appear to have worked for a Government.

I just don't see how saying "I'm sorry but" helps the situation. "But" (and, yes, I went to law school) negates everything that is said before "but" appears in a sentence.

[smearcase]

Depends on the judge.
In the state I worked in- not PA, I went to traffic court a few times as the "guest of honor". Never saw two judges handle it the same way and they were all in the same county.
One judge came in and announced to about 50 people waiting for their turn " You can plead guilty and receive half the points and half the fine, and pay your court costs and leave OR plead not guilty and stand trial but I must remind you that the fine the officer noted on the ticket is not the maximum fine under state law- that can be as much as $ 500 and is at my discretion" -- can't swear I got the quote 100% right from about 25 years ago but close. The courtroom emptied.
Another time I simply said that I had a good record over 50 years of driving and asked that be considered and received probation before judgment.
Based on my personal experiences solely, I would advise anyone with a decent driving history to go to court.