[lange]

I have a Aqua Air Model V60 pressure tank. When water is used, the pump runs and after it stops, water comes out of the safety valve (about half a cup). The pressure gauge above the safety valve shows 62 psi. Tank is showing 44 psi. Do I need to replace the safety valve?

[speedball1]

I'm a little puzzled. Here's your tank, (see image) and here's the factory explaintions.
+

Diaphragm Water System Pressure Tank - Stand Models Features:

Horizontal Models: Feature a universal jet pump bracket and two (2) bolt-on, corrosion-resistant, high density polypropylene feet for installations with limited headspace, such as under mobile homes.
Deep Drawn Steel Shells: Provide maximum material strength.
Union Models: Include an SS union connection for installer convenience.
Inner Shell: Prevents diaphragm from over-expanding.
Heavy Duty Diaphragm: maintains air charge and is made of finest quality butyl rubber. Separates air and water
Interior Tank Lining:
Standard models feature durable virgin polypropylene liner. Meets FDA requirements.
Mounted pump models feature fusion bonded polymeric lining. Meets FDA requirements.
Maximum Working Pressure: 125 psi (except mounted pump models, 100 psi).
Temperature Rating: Maximum 120° F.
Stainless Steel System Connection: On all Stand, In-Line, Buried and Horizontal models.
Appliance Appearance Exterior Finish: Two coat high performance protection system.
Heavy Duty Base: Eliminates corrosion due to condensation and exposure to the elements. Made of high density polypropylene.
Pre-charge: All tanks charged to 38 PSI.

I see no mention of a "safety valve" and really don't see any reason to include one, I also question the benefit of having a pressure gage connected to a bladder tank. The couldn't have come stock with the tank. Would you care to explain why they are there? Back to you, Tom

[jlisenbe]

I think you are referring to a pressure relief valve. Looks something like this? Water Tank Pressure Relief Valve - how to find, buy, & install safety valves on water tanks and on well water systems

Simply replace it. They are supposed to open at 75#. Either your is opening too soon, or your valve is reading low. Here's one: 3/4" x 1/2" Brass Pressure Relief Valve for Water Well Pressure Tank | eBay

[speedball1]

Sounds like a scar scam ad to me just like Rid-x or Septic Savior/
If you don't install a safety valve on your pressure or bladder tank they could explode and blow your place up. HORSE HOCKEY! When's the last time you ever heard of that happening? That's what control boxes do. In over 50 years out in the field I've never run into this sort of thing happening, But I'll search the net to see if it ever happened and get back to you. Bottom line here. If safety valves were a necessary part of a bladder or pressure tank manufactures would, include them with the tank. Regards Tom

Here's what the manufactures say about exploding bladder tanks,

All pressurized vessels, including water well tanks, are designed to leak if they become unstable. This is an alternative to tanks exploding which can be dangerous

Read more: Signs of Well Water Tank Failure | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_5873586_sig...#ixzz2966EYFez

Son you don't need a safety valve. Like I said, It's a scam to frighten you to purchase a safety valve you don't need. Regards, Tom

[jlisenbe]

Never heard of a scam that doesn't try to sell you something. The site I linked above isn't trying to get people to purchase anything. It's simply informative.

There is a documented case of a plumber being killed by a tank that blew mentioned in that article. But then again, that article is a scam. Right??

Your quote is not from a manufacturer, it's from the ehow.com site, which is simply a help site not unlike this one. The statement seems ridiculous to me. A hot water heater is a pressurized vessel, so are we to believe they don't need a TPR? BTW, if anyone thinks ehow is a great site, read this laughable article on supposedly adjusting a water well pressure relief valve, when what they are actually doing is describing how to adjust the pressure switch. How to Set the Pressure Relief Valve on a Well Pump | eHow.com

A well pump switching itself on and off between short intervals of less than two to three minutes usually means the pressure relief valve needs to be adjusted

And even that is ridiculous since the problem is probably a leaking bladder in the tank rather than the "pressure relief valve". What a group of experts.

It's a fifteen dollar device. Fifteen bucks. Some scam. Replace it.

More from ehow.com. This is filled with errors. Especially look at steps six and eight. How do I Tell If a Bladder Is Busted in a Water Tank? | eHow.com

1 Turn a faucet on and stand near the water well pressure gauge. As soon as the water pump engages, write down the cut-in pressure on the gauge on a piece of paper. The pump engages with an audible click and then the sound of the motor. Turn the faucet off.

2 Turn the power to the water-holding tank off at the circuit box.

3. Attach a garden hose to the spigot on the water tank by turning it clockwise. Turn the water valve in a counterclockwise direction to turn the water on. Drain all of the water out of the tank through the hose.

4 Turn the spigot at the well off by turning the handle clockwise.

5 Place a tire air gauge on the water tank air valve on the top of the tank. The air valve appears the same as an air valve stem on a car tire. Record the air tank pressure and compare it to the cut-in pressure recording. The air tank pressure should be 2 psi less than the cut-in pressure if the bladder is functioning correctly. A lower reading signifies a broken water tank bladder.

6 Place an air compressor or air tank hose on the water well air valve and fill the tank with air. The tank is full when it will no longer accept air from the tank or compressor.

7 Turn the water well circuit breaker on and left the tank fill with water until the cut out pressure is reached on the pump.

8 Mix water and dish soap in a small bowl to make a soapy mixture. Pour some of the mixture on the water tank air valve and look for bubbles. If bubbles appear, air is leaking out of the tank and this signifies a broken bladder.

[speedball1]

There is a documented case of a plumber being killed by a tank that blew mentioned in that article. But then again, that article is a scam. Right??

Jlisenb, Son you think a relief valve's necessary on a bladder tank. I just Googled " Plumbers killed by burst bladder tank" and came up with nothing. Here's a question for you, If relief valves are necessary then why don't manufactures include them when you purchase the tank. They don't ever offer them as a add on. Why do you figure that out. Is it because they aren't really v necessary?
Want to learn all about bladder tanks? Click on-- Bladder Type Water Storage & Pressure Tanks - Diagnosis & Repair
While they do mention "
bursting" but never about tanks, only the bladder itself so I go back to my original statement.
Bladder tank relief valves are a scam. And when's the last time you had a call for a burst bladder, tank? Regards, Tom

[jlisenbe]

I wouldn't take a chance on a fifteen dollar relief valve. Call if unnecessary if you want. A scam? That's way over the top. Where have you found a site where someone is scamming people in order to sell them a fifteen dollar PRV?

Now you have to admit. The site you quoted was, to put in mildly, questionable. This quote is nonsense and had nothing to do with a manufacturer.

All pressurized vessels, including water well tanks, are designed to leak if they become unstable. This is an alternative to tanks exploding which can be dangerous Read more: Signs of Well Water Tank Failure | eHow.com Signs of Well Water Tank Failure | eHow.com

Given the choice of a "leak" from an "unstable" tank or the simple use of a PRV, I vote for the PRV everyday and twice on Sunday.

As far as a report of a tank exploding, the site I linked reported one. It was, incidentally, the same site as the one you linked about bladder tanks, which is inspectapedia.com. I thought you believed that site was a scam? Can't have it both ways.

But you're still a good guy and full of knowledge! A disagreement amongst friends.

[speedball1]

I wouldn't take a chance on a fifteen dollar relief valve.

Take a chance on what? Paying fifteen bucks for a part you don't need?

All pressurized vessels, including water well tanks, are designed to leak if they become unstable.

I know that's silly! No factory would put out a tank with a built in leak. I was just having so fun at your expense. But now I'm serious, I have a few questions for you.
1- If bladder tank relief valves are so important why, after so many years out in the field. Am I hearing about them for the first time here?
2- In all the time you spent out there how many exploded bladder tanks have you had to replace?
3- Third time asked! Water heaters come with a relief valve, If bladder tank relief valves are necessary why don't factories include them?
4- Manufactures don't even off relief valves as a add on. You, at least, think they wouldn't pass up a chance to make a buck. Do you think mabey it's because they are a unnecessary expense?

[jlisenbe]

High pressure can result if the pressure switch that controls the pump is damaged, or if
The pump stays on too long. Most submersible pumps can develop pressure exceeding
The rated working limits of the pressure tank or distribution system. Excess water
Pressure can damage water system components as well as the pressure tank if not
Corrected immediately, so a pressure-relief valve is recommended. Relief valves are
Spring-controlled.

Here's the link: http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/V..._FINAL_507.pdf

Also, check this out for the answer to your question 4: Installation Tee Package For Well X Trol WX-202-H, WX-110PS, WX-200PS Well Tanks - WX-T1-H

[speedball1]

I'll give you this. Ya don't go down easy and I respect that. You've shown me ads and a paragraph. I know there are relief valves out there for sale. I question whether they're necessary or just another expense you don't need.
I have Googled and Binged " Burst or exploded water pump bladder tanks" and all I could come up with are burst bladders. Never a mention of a tank blowing up. Can you do better? I asked five questions.
1- If bladder tank relief valves are so important why, after so many years out in the field. Am I hearing about them for the first time here?
2- In all the time you spent out there how many exploded bladder tanks have you had to replace?
3- Third time asked! Water heaters come with a relief valve, If bladder tank relief valves are necessary why don't factories include them?
4- Manufactures don't even off relief valves as a add on. You, at least, think they wouldn't pass up a chance to make a buck. Do you think mabey it's because they are a unnecessary expense?
5- Pull up a bladder tank ad that recommends adding a relief valve on the tank
How about answering them one by one? Can do? Tom

[jlisenbe]

OK. Here you go:

1- If bladder tank relief valves are so important why, after so many years out in the field. Am I hearing about them for the first time here? It is remotely possible that there are things you have not heard of. I know...shocking.
2- In all the time you spent out there how many exploded bladder tanks have you had to replace? I'm strictly an amateur, so the answer is zero. I would not argue that fact that it is extremely rare.
3- Third time asked! Water heaters come with a relief valve, If bladder tank relief valves are necessary why don't factories include them? Why don't factories include expansion tanks on hot water heaters? Because they are not included does not mean that, in many applications, they are not needed. I would think manufacturers simply allow the owner to make that decision.
4- Manufactures don't even off relief valves as a add on. You, at least, think they wouldn't pass up a chance to make a buck. Do you think mabey it's because they are a unnecessary expense? The site I linked above clearly shows a PRV as a part of an installment package. They (a manufacturer!) seemed to consider it to be the norm.
5- Pull up a bladder tank ad that recommends adding a relief valve on the tank. Go to this site WATER SOURCE Pressure Relief Valve 1/2" 75 Psi - Tools - Plumbing Tools - Pipe & Tube Cutters and note the following recommendation: "

WATER SOURCE" PRESSURE RELIEF VALVEProtects tank systems from pressure buildup. Recommended for all submersible pumps or systems that build more than 75 PSI.

That is from the Sears site which has a ton of pressure tanks listed. Their recommendation, not mine. In addition, your beloved ehow.com sites recommends a PRV: Well Pressure Tank Installation | eHow.com. And if that's not enough, this site shows a pic of a "typical" pressure tank install. What do you see at the bottom of the pic? Typical Well Pressure Tank Installation And lastly, a Simmons kit for installing a pressure tank. It includes a PRV. WELL WATER PUMP BRASS TANK TEE WHOLE KIT 30/50 SWITCH | eBay

I would not suggest that not having a PRV is insanity, but I would include the ten dollar (Sears site) item and never think about it again. I think you are a mile off base to suggest it is a scam. Unnecessary?? Probably, until, at least, you need one.

You are right. I don't go down easy. I learned that from the moderator on this site, a guy named Speedball! (<:

[speedball1]

1-

If bladder tank relief valves are so important why, after so many years out in the field. Am I hearing about them for the first time here? It is remotely possible that there are things you have not heard of. I know... shocking.

You're selling me short! In my area moat all the houses have shallow well sprinkler systems and I've seen hundreds. Not a one with a bladder tank relief valve.
2-

In all the time you spent out there how many exploded bladder tanks have you had to replace? I'm strictly an amateur, so the answer is zero. I would not argue that fact that it is extremely rare.

WHAT'S THIS?? You're not a licensed plumber? Could have fooled me! From the great answers and solutions you give I would have sworn you were in the trade.
3-

Water heaters come with a relief valve, If bladder tank relief valves are necessary why don't factories include them? Why don't factories include expansion tanks on hot water heaters? Because they are not included does not mean that, in many applications, they are not needed. I would think manufacturers simply allow the owner to make that decision.

Following your reasoning then waters heaters shouldn't come with relief valves either,
4-

Manufactures don't even off relief valves as a add on. You, at least, think they wouldn't pass up a chance to make a buck. Do you think mabey it's because they are a unnecessary expense? The site I linked above clearly shows a PRV as a part of an installment package. They (a manufacturer!) seemed to consider it to be the norm.

Seemed to think? The "norm" for what. Certainly not the other manufactures. (see#5)
5-

Pull up a bladder tank ad that recommends adding a relief valve on the tank. Go to this site WATER SOURCE Pressure Relief Valve 1/2" 75 Psi - Tools - Plumbing Tools - Pipe & Tube Cutters and note the following recommendation: "

I ask for factory manufactures and you give me retailers. No matter! I saved you the trouble. I pulled the installation sheets for Well-X-Trol and Gould and no where in the installation sheets was there any mention of adding a relief valve. Could it just be they aren't that necessary?

I would not suggest that not having a PRV is insanity, but I would include the ten dollar (Sears site) item and never think about it again

And I would suggest you do a regular installation and save ten bucks,

You are right. I don't go down easy. I learned that from the moderator on this site, a guy named Speedball!

Then I have taught you well Grasshopper

[jlisenbe]

I ask for factory manufactures and you give me retailers. No matter! I saved you the trouble. I pulled the installation sheets for Well-X-Trol and Gould and no where in the installation sheets was there any mention of adding a relief valve. Could it just be they aren't that necessary?

Sure about that?? Then why do the directions include this statement?

"WARNING! RELIEF VALVE REQUIRED
A relief valve should be installed which is set to open at excessive pressures (125 psig). This will protect the WELL-X-TROL and other system components should the pressure switch malfunction and fail to shut the pump off. The relief valve should be installed at the connection of the WELL-X-TROL to the system piping and have a discharge equal to the pump's capacity at 125 psig."

http://www.amtrol.com/media/document..._PRO_IO_NG.pdf

Refer to page 4.

Also found this warning on the install directions for a booster pump: "Hazardous pressure! Install pressure relief valve in
discharge pipe. Release all pressure on system before working on any component." http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-HP-SHALLOW...249#vi-content

Not too bad for a grasshopper! (<:

Still, I must admit. You the man!

[speedball1]

This has gone about as far as I feel it should go. Let' agree to disagree. You seem to think bladder tank relief valves are necessary and I think they are a unnecessary expense. You back up your claim with a few ads while I back mine up by the countless bladder tanks that don't have one. You may be correct! It may be prudent to install one. But until I can find a documented case where a bladder tank exploded by pump pressure I stand by my statements. Let's close this thread and get back to answering questions. But it has been fun hasn't it. And I still think you'd make a good plumber! Tom

[jlisenbe]

It has been fun. Our discussions always are. Keeps me on my toes, kind of like being in the ring with Joe Frazier or Ali.

I'll close with this: Amtrol (not an ad) says a relief valve is REQUIRED, but we both know that is probably just one of countless statements made just in case a lawsuit comes up. Cover your rearend, in other words.