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FarmingNana · Aug 19, 2012, 01:58 PM

We got a Great Pyrenese, Black Lab mix when he was 5 weeks old. He is now 12 weeks and we are having a terrible time with him biting. I don't mean the puppy chews, I mean showing the teeth and snapping bites. People are telling us we should get rid of him. I'm already attached to him and he is very smart. He heels, sits, comes and fetches. However, we have 2 grandchildren and I don't want them or anyone to get bit. We thought this type of dog would be good with children and help with guarding the animals around the farm. We have never allowed him to bite or chew on our fingers because we didn't want a dog that would bite. I have had dogs all my life so I feel pretty knowledgeable about them. We have tried holding his muzzle, putting him to the ground, ignoring him, a spray bottle, and sometimes I just have to kick him away because he won't stop. He weighs 28 lbs. already. Do you have any suggestions?

tickle · Aug 19, 2012, 02:07 PM

I am stumped as you are. Both good breeds. I would have to say you are going to spend money on a trainer before reforming him.

Aurora_Bell · Aug 20, 2012, 07:11 AM

All dogs have the potential to bite, I really don't think it's a breed thing. The only way you should keep your dog is if you are prepared to take him to behavior modification or obedience. Even then he still may just be an aggressive dog, meaning you will either have to re-home or make sure you avoid putting him in any situation where a child or other animal can be hurt.

Aggression is a symptom of your dog experiencing TOO MUCH ENERGY in any given situation. When your dog is in a situation with the potential to show aggression try giving him a job to do. Sit, down, giving him a bone or toy to chew on can help alleaviate the need to look for a job (protecting his home in you case). Your dog may also feel the need to be alpha and thinks he is protecting his home. Dogs often show aggression to establish their dominance. Dogs who display this type of aggression feel that they are in charge. The growling, snapping, or biting occurs when they feel their dominance is being challenged. You need to make sure your dog knows YOU are alpha. This means not being allowed on furniture or beds, you make all the calls and ask something from him before he gets fed, pet, walked etc... Usually a simple sit command before he gets what he is looking for will suffice.

Fear is another reason a dog might display aggression. Usually, the dog only exhibits aggressive behavior if he feels he is in danger and needs to defend himself. A fearful dog usually only bites when it can not escape from the situation he is put in.

Human aggression is a serious issue, this can mean law suits or even death. A bite from a dog can leave lasting impressions on small kids. It`s inportant as well that your grandkids KNOW how to act and treat your (any dog for that matter) dog.

Here is a great link on body language: Dog Language

Same site, but here is the link on preventing bites: Preventing Bites

There are lots of great sites out there teaching kids how to act around dogs, have a look and make sure your grandkids understand that your dog may just not be the friendly play pal that other dogs may be. Good luck!

FarmingNana · Aug 20, 2012, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the info. We do make him sit before he gets his food. He is no longer in the house and we have been working a lot more with him to work off his energy. He loves to fetch and I think he would do that until he passed out. At least I'm not bleeding from my hands tonight so maybe we're making progress.

Aurora_Bell · Aug 21, 2012, 05:11 AM

What do you mean he is no longer in the house? Isolating him will only create more issues. If your dog is biting you out of aggression, imagine what he would do to a strange child.

Lucky098 · Aug 21, 2012, 01:56 PM

I would suggest to purchase a cage muzzle and go about your business and correct him HARSHLY when he snaps.

Puppies really don't show aggression at his young age. I think he is testing the waters to see what he can get away with. If he were 7-10months or even a year or older, than I would deem it as aggression, but because he is so young, I don't think its aggression... like at all.

Obedience is a wonderful too to handle dogs that want to be in charge, however; I have a feeling that he is not wanting to be in charge.

What I would do.. is first, purchase a muzzle of some kind.. Protect yourself. I would suggest a cage muzzle because it will allow the dog to vomit and pant and than I would suggest for you to hold him.. hold him.. hold him and hold him some more. Make him submit to you. When he throws fits.. correct him and continue to hold him through his fits. A 28lb puppy isn't hard to handle.. an 80lb dog will be.

Not every match of dog and human work. If you feel as if you cannot handle this puppy, I would suggest to re-home him. Mixed breed dogs are not a guarantee that both breeds will create a wonderful dog. A lot of mixed breed dogs are biters. If you want a dog that is going to be great with the world, get a purebred. The purebreds at least have some kind of guarantee that they are going to act the way they are going to act.

Besides, do you know for a fact that this dog is a half and half?

JudyKayTee · Aug 21, 2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by FarmingNana

Thanks for the info. We do make him sit before he gets his food. He is no longer in the house and we have been working alot more with him to work off his energy. He loves to fetch and I think he would do that until he passed out. At least I'm not bleeding from my hands tonight so maybe we're making progress.

He is no longer in the house because you can't handle him?

I think he should be rehomed while he's still young.

I don't think he's inherently evil.

tickle · Aug 22, 2012, 01:39 AM

Lucky's suggestion of a cage muzzle is great advice, and also the suggestion of holding him NOW while it still can be done. I wouldn't give up yet.

Aurora_Bell · Aug 22, 2012, 05:09 AM

Some dogs are just aggressive, there is no rhyme or reason to it. It's not something that anyone person can change and it usually leads to the dog having to be destroyed. I am sure I will get some slack about this, but I see it. It's not a common thing, but it happens. I had a dog that was just plain aggressive. Used Bark Busters, took him to behave mod, he bit a kid. I had him put down. He wasn't even a year old and showed aggression from the first day I brought him home. There was nothing more I could do for him.

I have a dog now that I used to cage muzzle and she got so stressed when I had to muzzle her it created a lot more tension on us as a working unit. However, it was one of the best learning tools I have ever used. Once we got the hang of it, things went a lot smoother. I don't put my dog in situations where she will be around other animals, and it has created a drastic life change for me. I used to camp every weekend, I used to have people visit for weekends, I used to travel for work, now I either have a very close friend dog sit for me when I go camping or when I have guests with small children or animals. My dog has never shown aggression to humans, but she is very animal aggressive, so I choose to not put her in situations where she can become uncomfortable. But, I can tell you one thing, if I had a dog that bit ME, that I was so fearful I did not allow him in my home, I would not have him in my home. I know no one here wants to see a good dog put down, but sometimes that IS the only option.

Aurora_Bell · Aug 22, 2012, 05:10 AM

I have never been a fan of the pin technique, in everything I have been taught in the last few years I've been told it's not only dangerous, but a useless technique. But to each their own.

JudyKayTee · Aug 22, 2012, 05:24 AM

This dog is 12 weeks old and has been (apparently) banished outside.

The problems are only going to get worse - again, in my opinion.

Isolating the dog from people is NOT going to "teach" him to play nice. It's the constant contact and correction that makes a difference, not putting the dog somewhere where no one has to deal with him.

Lucky098 · Aug 22, 2012, 08:11 AM

Here is my complaint with people...

These people purchased this puppy at 5 weeks old, no doubt this pup was a parking lot puppy. Take it home and treat it like a 10 week old puppy.

This dog lost his litter extremely early and his mother. He never got to learn right from wrong from his siblings or mother. He never learned that biting too hard had a consequence and now he is starting to "act out" with the people.

Now everyone is deaming this puppy as aggressive. I realize there are some pups out there that are truly evil. I'm not denying that fact.. but it is also fact that if a puppy is taken away from the mother too early, aggressive acts do happen.. Does that mean this dog is going to be a man eating beast? NO! It means.. the OP needs to sit down, read a book on training a puppy, and DO IT!

Another complaint with the OP.. You claim to have dog knowledge... Why on earth did you purchase a puppy at 5weeks old? Unless you are an experienced dog handler (not owner, handler) than these are the toughest puppies to civilize. They are hard to house train, hard to teach obedience and hard to settle in a home environment. And now that the OP has taken on a challenge far more challanging than a normal puppy, this pup is going to lose his life. That angers me... a lot.

So now.. we have a 10wk old puppy LIVING OUTSIDE. And now we are going to wonder why the 10wk old puppy, purchased as a 5wk old puppy is going to grow up to be a man eating beast.

Dogs were never created to be alone. They do awful by themselves. They need a pack, either other dogs, or people.. they need a pack. They thrive in a pack environment. Even the dogs that are guarding flocks and herds have another dog to be with. They are never alone.

Here is my other complaint.. Everyone is so scared to use a muzzle, crate, pinch collars or shock collar, yet they complain that the dog is unruly and destructive or mean. Those things were created for a reason, as a training aid. Can they be abused? Yes, very severely in some cases. Which is why I always suggest that these people seek professional help with shock collars or pinch collars. If the traditional methods of using treats and luring them into the positions you want don't work, you need to get the dog under control. There is nothing wrong with a cage muzzle for a snappy puppy. But I'm sure the OP thinks its mean. A cage muzzle PROTECTS YOU from your dog biting you. Once you are protected from his mouth, you can actually correct the problems without getting hurt. Like Bella said, it was a great training tool!

Not every dog is the classic happy-go-lucky lab. Some dogs you need to be careful with when small children come or other dogs come over. Does that mean that dog isn't worth keeping alive? Of course not! My own example.. I went from a very friendly dog to a dog that has a "Extreme caution- animal aggressive" on her file at the Vet's office. She is horrible around other dogs, but she is wonderful around me and my other dogs and is extremely friendly around other people. My dog and I just can't go to the dog park like everyone else. No biggie...

This puppy needs training. And not the training offered by Petsmart/Petco. Those classes are great for the puppy needing to learn "sit", not for the puppy that is starting to show undesirable behaviors. Your puppy needs behavior classes. And those are not cheap.

So, OP, I guess its up to you.. do you want to kill your dog? Or do you want to fix it? The choice is yours.. and yes it is that black and white. Puppies that show undesirable behaviors now, will only progress into the "bad" dog no one likes. Puppies can be fixed.. adults -- very hard to fix.

First step, get a cage muzzle and BRING THE DOG INSIDE!

I'm sure I'll get a reddie on this one... :)

JudyKayTee · Aug 22, 2012, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky098

First step, get a cage muzzle and BRING THE DOG INSIDE!

I'm sure I'll get a reddie on this one... :)

Well, if you do I just neutralized it.

Lucky098 · Aug 22, 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Well, if you do I just neutralized it.

Lol Thank you very much :)

tickle · Aug 22, 2012, 02:12 PM

No reddies from me either... but lots of greenies for every point you scored !

Aurora_Bell · Aug 22, 2012, 03:40 PM

Missed the 5 Weeks age, no doubt the reason for the aggression. Pup wasn't properly socialized. No bite inhibition. No reddie from me. I only disagreed with one part, but I respect you and your advice lucky.

Aurora_Bell · Aug 22, 2012, 03:42 PM

And I one million times agree about banishing the dog outside. I meant to imply that I would rehome or...

FarmingNana · Aug 23, 2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

What do you mean he is no longer in the house? Isolating him will only create more issues. If your dog is biting you out of aggression, imagine what he would do to a strange child.

He loves being outside. We didn't put him out there because of his biting. He seems to be doing a lot better being able to run around outside and use up some of his energy. Everyone's remarks have been very helpful. I just try to stuff a toy in his mouth when he tries to bite me. He isn't showing his teeth to me or growling anymore. He is now 33 lbs. and very clumsy with his big feet. He loves to sit on the swing with me. I'm feeling much better about him now and I think it is going to work out okay. Thanks!

FarmingNana · Aug 23, 2012, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky098

Here is my complaint with people...

These people purchased this puppy at 5 weeks old, no doubt this pup was a parking lot puppy. Take it home and treat it like a 10 week old puppy.

This dog lost his litter extremely early and his mother. He never got to learn right from wrong from his siblings or mother. He never learned that biting too hard had a consequence and now he is starting to "act out" with the people.

Now everyone is deaming this puppy as aggressive. I realize there are some pups out there that are truely evil. I'm not denying that fact.. but it is also fact that if a puppy is taken away from the mother too early, aggressive acts do happen.. Does that mean this dog is going to be a man eating beast? NO! It means.. the OP needs to sit down, read a book on training a puppy, and DO IT!

Another complaint with the OP.. You claim to have dog knowledge... Why on earth did you purchase a puppy at 5weeks old? Unless you are an experienced dog handler (not owner, handler) than these are the toughest puppies to civilize. They are hard to house train, hard to teach obedience and hard to settle in a home environment. And now that the OP has taken on a challange far more challanging than a normal puppy, this pup is going to lose his life. That angers me... a lot.

So now.. we have a 10wk old puppy LIVING OUTSIDE. And now we are going to wonder why the 10wk old puppy, purchased as a 5wk old puppy is going to grow up to be a man eating beast.

Dogs were never created to be alone. They do awful by themselves. They need a pack, either other dogs, or people.. they need a pack. They thrive in a pack environment. Even the dogs that are guarding flocks and herds have another dog to be with. They are never alone.

Here is my other complaint.. Everyone is so scared to use a muzzle, crate, pinch collars or shock collar, yet they complain that the dog is unruly and destructive or mean. Those things were created for a reason, as a training aid. Can they be abused? Yes, very severely in some cases. Which is why I always suggest that these people seek professional help with shock collars or pinch collars. If the traditional methods of using treats and luring them into the positions you want dont work, you need to get the dog under control. There is nothing wrong with a cage muzzle for a snappy puppy. But I'm sure the OP thinks its mean. A cage muzzle PROTECTS YOU from your dog biting you. Once you are protected from his mouth, you can actually correct the problems without getting hurt. Like Bella said, it was a great training tool!

Not every dog is the classic happy-go-lucky lab. Some dogs you need to be careful with when small children come or other dogs come over. Does that mean that dog isnt worth keeping alive? Of course not! My own example.. I went from a very friendly dog to a dog that has a "Extreme caution- animal aggressive" on her file at the Vet's office. She is horrible around other dogs, but she is wonderful around me and my other dogs and is extremely friendly around other people. My dog and I just can't go to the dog park like everyone else. No biggie...

This puppy needs training. And not the training offered by Petsmart/Petco. Those classes are great for the puppy needing to learn "sit", not for the puppy that is starting to show undesirable behaviors. Your puppy needs behavior classes. And those are not cheap.

So, OP, I guess its up to you.. do you want to kill your dog? Or do you want to fix it? The choice is yours.. and yes it is that black and white. Puppies that show undesireable behaviors now, will only progress into the "bad" dog no one likes. Puppies can be fixed.. adults -- very hard to fix.

First step, get a cage muzzle and BRING THE DOG INSIDE!

I'm sure I'll get a reddie on this one... :)

This puppy was not a parking lot dog. It came from a family that couldn't afford to feed them, so we rescued him. He has been very obedient and easy to train. He is fully house trained, practically from the time we brought him home. He was very easy to train to sit, stay, heel and fetch. He is not a city dog where he has to sit inside all the time. We have a 50 acre farm with cattle, horses, and chickens. He loves being outside with the other animals. I never said anything about killing him! He is doing a lot better since he is outside. I guess he just needed to run off some aggression. Don't criticize me before you know the whole story, I have worked with animals all my life and loved every one. I am familiar with various training tools and techniques. This was just something I hadn't dealt with before.

FarmingNana · Aug 23, 2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

This dog is 12 weeks old and has been (apparently) banished outside.

The problems are only going to get worse - again, in my opinion.

Isolating the dog from people is NOT going to "teach" him to play nice. It's the constant contact and correction tht makes a difference, not putting the dog somewhere where no one has to deal with him.

He wasn't (banished) outside. We spend a lot of time outside. He loves to run around with the other animals. He helps me feed the chickens and horses. He just needed a job to do. So everyone that says putting a dog outside will only make it worse was mistaken. Maybe in town it's a bad idea but in the country not so true.