Check out some similar questions!

RevivalDesign · Aug 3, 2012, 07:27 PM

We are working on a home renovation and need to install a new circuit panel in a new location. The most convenient location is inside our new laundry room. I have heard that there is a minimum of six feet of separation between the panel and a water source, but have not been able to confirm that requirement, or to confirm whether a washing machine is treated in the same manner as a sink.

mike 165278 · Aug 3, 2012, 08:06 PM

110.26(F) Dedicated Equipment Space. All switchboards, panelboards, distribution boards, and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated equipment spaces and protected from damage.

110.26(F)(1)(a) Indoor Dedicated Equipment Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

Also nothing within 3' of the front

mike 165278 · Aug 3, 2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by mike 165278

110.26(F) Dedicated Equipment Space. All switchboards, panelboards, distribution boards, and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated equipment spaces and protected from damage.

110.26(F)(1)(a) Indoor Dedicated Equipment Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

Also nothing within 3' of the front

And 30" of either side...

mike 165278 · Aug 3, 2012, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by mike 165278

And 30" of either side...

Sorry not 30" either side, 30" total width, panel does not need to be centered in that 30"

tkrussell · Aug 4, 2012, 02:47 AM

No, a washer is not considered as a sink, and it can be next to the panel as long as there is 30 inch clearance for panel, and as Mike stated does not need to be centered on panel.

stanfortyman · Aug 4, 2012, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by RevivalDesign

I have heard that there is a minimum of six feet of separation between the panel and a water source, but have not been able to confirm that requirement, or to confirm whether or not a washing machine is treated in the same manner as a sink.

May I ask where you heard this? I have heard of people saying this in the past and wonder WHO makes this stuff up. This has never been a requirement so it puzzles me.

Also, there is NO special requirement as far as sinks go either. A panel can be immediately next to a sink or washer, as long as the 30" width space is maintained in the other direction.

stanfortyman · Aug 4, 2012, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by mike 165278

And 30" of either side...

This has been corrected already, but I'll ask the same question; where did you read this, or did you simply misinterpret 110.26(A)(2)?

hkstroud · Aug 4, 2012, 06:20 AM

May I ask where you heard this? I have heard of people saying this in the past and wonder WHO makes this stuff up. This has never been a requirement so it puzzles me.

From the same people that say that if you don't get an inspection and have a fire, your insurance company might not pay.

mike 165278 · Aug 4, 2012, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

This has been corrected already, but I'll ask the same question; where did you read this, or did you simply misinterpret 110.26(A)(2)?

I just had a brain fart. As soon as I hit submit I realized it. No way to edit a response on my phone...

stanfortyman · Aug 4, 2012, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

From the same people that say that if you don't get an inspection and have a fire, your insurance company might not pay.

HAHAHAHA... so true. :)

stanfortyman · Aug 4, 2012, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by mike 165278

No way to edit a response on my phone...

Good to know. I've never been here from my phone.

RevivalDesign · Aug 4, 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

May I ask where you heard this? I have heard of people saying this in the past and wonder WHO makes this stuff up. This has never been a requirement so it puzzles me.

Also, there is NO special requirement as far as sinks go either. A panel can be immediately next to a sink or washer, as long as the 30" width space is maintained in the other direction.

I can't tell if my first reply went through, so sorry if this shows up more than once.

I heard this from an electrician who prepared a bid for the panel installation. By way of background, we are converting an old garage space into a small master bedroom with an on-suite bathroom and a combination walk-in closet and laundry. At the same time, we want to upgrade from a overloaded 60 amp fuse box to a modern panel. The garage was converted into a 10 by 20 laundry room/storage space years ago, but we want the space to be more useful.

The space in the newly designed closet/laundry room is tight. The electrician indicated that the local building inspector and/or design review official may not approve the location. He indicated that they don't allow panels to be located in bathrooms or in a kitchen, where our old fuse panel is currently located. We don't want it there either, so that part is okay with us. The electrician suggested that as a fall-back, we could locate it on an exterior wall outside the spot we suggested in our original design. As for myself, I would rather open a panel to switch breakers next to my washing machine than standing outside in a rain storm. That said, I do understand that codes don't always make sense and that code officials don't always interpret those codes correctly.

shuntripper · Aug 4, 2012, 07:48 AM

Codes always make sense if you understand the intent. Maybe this isn't clear, located in a 30" space, means the width of the wall space from floor to the top of the panel. Three feet in front is clear working space in front of the panel itself, straight out, doesn't have to be 30" wide, just the width of the panel.
No plumbing is allowed in the space described, up to the roof, That means an imaginary box, panel width, 3' deep from front of the panel plus panel depth, and extending up to the roof.

Inspector may allow plumbing below the panel, inside the wall

Ask your local "Authority having Jurisdiction"

hkstroud · Aug 4, 2012, 09:59 AM

Idle question here.

There must be some other section of the code involved here. Where does the 30" minimum width and the 36" depth come from. Section 110.26(F)(1)(a) states width and depth of equipment.

Second idle question. Is subpanel considered a distribution panel, therefore requiring same miniums.

stanfortyman · Aug 4, 2012, 10:06 AM

110.26(F) was changed for 2011 to 110.26(E).

For 2008 the following applies:

Originally Posted by hkstroud

There must be some other section of the code involved here. Where does the 30" minimum width and the 36" depth come from. Section 110.26(F)(1)(a) states width and depth of equipment.

110.26(A) covers working clearances. (F) covers dedicated space,meaning no foreign systems in that space.

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Second idle question. Is subpanel considered a distribution panel, therefore requiring same miniums.

Yes.

RevivalDesign · Aug 4, 2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by shuntripper

Codes always make sense if you understand the intent. "

My comment was more philosophical in nature. Code requirements can be clear but still not make sense. The dimensional requirements for service access are straight forward, but the issue of electrical equipment in wet locations does not seem to be treated consistently, at least not if what I heard is correct. What would make it okay to put a circuit panel in an outdoor location in an area exposed to rain, but not near a plumbing fixture where the water is controlled? Sure, plumbing can fail and people can do dumb things around water, but rain is inevitable almost everywhere, so what's the difference?

shuntripper · Aug 4, 2012, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by RevivalDesign

My comment was more philosophical in nature. Code requirements can be clear but still not make sense. The dimensional requirements for service access are straight forward, but the issue of electrical equipment in wet locations does not seem to be treated consistently, at least not if what I heard is correct. What would make it okay to put a circuit panel in an outdoor location in an area exposed to rain, but not near a plumbing fixture where the water is controlled? Sure, plumbing can fail and people can do dumb things around water, but rain is inevitable almost everywhere, so what's the difference?

Inevitable yes but hopefully not indoors.

Because a panel installed indoors will be in a Nema 1 enclosure (dry location) and a panel located outside will be in at least a Nema 3 can (raintite)

And plumbing can leak

But mostly the Code must assume that some people are absolute idiots who will do incredibly stupid or dangerous things if it is not specifically and tediously prohibited somewhere... in writing... and enforced by someone who can make you pay money or go to jail or both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBO0...eature=related

tkrussell · Aug 5, 2012, 03:00 AM

Here is a diagram that shows working space is different that dedicated space. Also illustrates that the 36 inch working space out from face of panel shall be 30 inches wide, again the 30 inch wide space does not need to be centered on panel.

Dedicated space means piping of fluids shall not be above or below the panel.