[LadySam]

I'm betting right about now Chewy is a little Tri-colored angel
Boy, I miss my stubborn old Sam. He was one of the most trying, lovable, pouty, beautiful little guys ever.

[JudyKayTee]

I have bigger, broaded chested GSDs than mine that twisted and needed surgery. I think genetics have to play a big part.

He was saved by a great Vet and a wonderful Vet Assistant who actually slept at the Vet Hospital the first night. They were wonderful, caring people. I still remember so very well. My dog, Bandit, wasn't eating, wasn't responding, stayed facing the back of the kennel. They told me not to come in because leaving would upset him more. After several days they said I should come in - he wouldn't eat or drink, he'd been on IVs too long. I packed up shredded chicken and went in with my heart in my mouth. There he was, in the back of his kennel (and he was a big dog), facing the wall. I said his name and he picked his head up, pulled himself around without standing up, saw me and crawled through the kennel to me. I went in with him and he put his head on me and sighed. I will never, ever forgot the look on his face. I'm sure he thought I wasn't coming back. I went in twice a day and fed him by hand. He got stronger and came home and lived for 11 more years.

But, oh, that look - I learned that if you can possibly visit - visit.

[Alty]

Spreading the rep really sucks! Just fyi.

[LadySam]

I think genetics play a large role too.

I dislike having to tell clients that they should not visit their animal because they will expect to go home and get depressed when it doesn't happen. Or we are afraid they will disrupt the sutures from a recent surgery if they get too excited.
That's when a caring staff is sooo valuable as you know.

[Sariss]

Bowls up, bowls down, everyone has different opinions.
My Dane's bowl is halfway raised. If it is raised too much he eats far too fast and will therefore gulp. If it's too low he has to bend down a lot, and although this means he eats slower and doesn't gulp, I fear for his neck getting sore.

The main idea is rest. Half an hour before, and at least an hour after eating.

As far as tacking goes - from what we have seen it helps. None of our pexy'd dogs have ever twisted at the clinic. The ones that twist aren't tacked - and we tack them once we have to go in surgically - and then from then on while some have bloated again they never twist. You just need to do it right.

[JudyKayTee]

I never heard about rest BEFORE - good to know. Thank you.

My GSD was stapled after he twisted and it never happened again - but, of course, he never ran after eating/drinking again.

[Sariss]

Yeah that part is kind of hard. After his morning walk Apollo is PUMPED for his breakfast, and sad once he remembers he has to wait.

[Lucky098]

I don't think I have anything new to say than what has already been said about preventing GDV.

Although none of my dogs are deep chested and the breeds that are not prone to GDV, I always wait 3 hours for them to eat after a good run. I never feed them before exercise either. And so far I've never had even a scare.

If you purchase a pup that is going to be at risk of bloat and twisting, I'd recommend to get the stomach tacked down at time of spay/neuter. I learned that from school and I learned that from working in the veterinary field. If you happen to adopt a dog with a deep chest or a breed that is prone to it.. I'd recommend for them to have the surgery as well. Its just safer and won't cost you a ton of money in the long run.

I was also told that dogs who are prone to GDV to feed food that's been soaked in water. The food has already expanded and won't expand in the stomach which can cause GDV.

Feeding twice a day or small meals throughout the day.. or if your dog isn't going to be a piggy, free-feeding, will prevent GDV. The idea behind it, is the stomach doesn't go from small to large in a matter of minutes. I like feeding twice a day because I think of myself.. I know I wouldn't want to be starving all day long than engorging myself... I know that wouldn't make me feel good, so I'm sure it doesn't make the dogs feel good either.

Some dogs are just prone to it no matter what we do to ensure it doesn't happen. Just take all measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

Classic symptoms are pale mucous membranes, excessive water intake. Unproductive vomiting (dry heaves), uninterested in food.. in severe cases, extended abdomen... and if you're real in touch with your dog, they just look miserable

Also.. on a side note.. if your dog is a gulper.. put large rocks in their bowls, hand feed, or spread it out on a large pan. Gulping food is also a good way for a dog to get bloated.. I'm sure there are more tricks out there to prevent gulping..

[Alty]

Classic symptoms are pale mucous membranes, excessive water intake. Unproductive vomiting (dry heaves), uninterested in food.. in severe cases, extended abdomen... and if you're real in touch with your dog, they just look miserable

Now this is scaring me. This was Jasper! But the vet never even suggested it could be GDV. The gulping water, the extended abdomen, no interest in food, dry heaves, and not so dry heaves (but we thought it was because he was literally devouring the water, too fast, to the point where we had to take it away, because he wouldn't stop drinking, and couldn't keep it down. He couldn't keep anything down?

Am I reading too much into this?

Now I'm really questioning things. I know it doesn't change anything, we lost him and knowing why won't change that, but looking back, these were the symptoms, and we took him to the vet twice, and nothing that was done helped, even with x-rays and blood work and everything.

If it was GDV, shouldn't it have been detectable, and would he have had a chance, even though he was so far gone when we finally decided to end it? Would another vet have been able to do more than the one we saw? Would we still have our Jasper?

This twenty twenty hindsight really isn't good for me. Like I said, doesn't change anything now, but damn! :(

[LadySam]

Abdominal x-ray would have shown trapped air. It's actually pretty profound in most cases.
I know it won't change anything, like you said, but here is what it would have looked like.

GDV in Dogs: Canine Gastric Dilation and Volvulus | Suite101.com

[Alty]

Sam, the vet said there was nothing but air in his stomach, but that was because he wasn't eating. Could she have meant trapped air?

I don't know why I'm asking. Knowing now won't do anything. It's over, it's done, Jasper is gone. Nothing will bring him back.

But, this vet is now Rascals vet, and truth told, I don't trust her. If Jasper hadn't gone downhill so quickly I would have gone to a different vet.

I guess I'm just beating myself up. Doesn't really serve a purpose considering that he's gone.

Also, please don't get me wrong. We love our new little Rascal so much. I have to believe that everything happens for a reason. If we hadn't lost Jasper, we wouldn't have Rascal. Not that I'd trade one for the other, but that's sort of the point. We made the best decision we could with the info we had, and that has led us to this point. This point is great. We miss Jasper, and Indy, but we love Chewy and Rascal so much too. Every one of them has a special place in my heart, and always will.

I just still wonder. Even though it serves no purpose.

[LadySam]

Don't beat yourself up you did for him what you thought was best because you loved him.
No doubt in my mind that he felt that love and loved you unconditionally in return.
Many things I would change if I could turn back time, loving an animal and having that returned tenfold for his/her entire life is not one of them.

[Alty]

Don't beat yourself up you did for him what you thought was best because you loved him.
No doubt in my mind that he felt that love and loved you unconditionally in return.
Many things I would change if I could turn back time, loving an animal and having that returned tenfold for his/her entire life is not one of them.

Thanks Lady Sam.

If I had to do it over again, I would do the same, I'd end his suffering.

I have to believe that there was nothing we could do, I have to trust the vet that much at least. But I can say that I won't be trusting her in the future. Yesterday Rascal got his last set of puppy shots, and I requested a different vet for those shots.

I know her well, she's the rabbit specialist at the clinic, and the only one I trust with my rabbits. Didn't know we'd be getting her, so when she walked into the room I was a bit shocked.

Turns out that I didn't know her as well as I thought. She breeds rabbits, knows everything about them (which I knew), but also specializes in dogs. In fact, she has a dog (3 years old) that could be Rascals twin. She does agility with him. So we had a bit of a chat. I told her I wanted to get Rascal into agility, and she gave me a number to call, the trainer she goes to.

I'm feeling good about her for our dogs, as well as our rabbits.

Also, the vet tech we had yesterday was the best ever. She let Sydney (my daughter) listen to Rascal's hear beat, she trimmed his nails, and taught me to be a bit more comfortable about doing so myself. It's funny, I have no problem cutting the rabbits nails, in fact, all four of them take me around 15 minutes to trim. I just sit them in my lap and snip snip snip. But since an incident with Indy (he had very dark nails) where I cut the qwik, I'm nervous about cutting the dogs nails. In fact, I can't even watch it being done. Now I feel better about it.

All in all, I'm feeling better about our vet clinic, if I can ask for that vet tech and that vet. :)

[JudyKayTee]

Alty, EVERYTHING serves a purpose. I always figure somewhere there's a big blueprint and we're all just following it.

Second guessing? I do it all the time. You know that. With my dogs. With my late husband. How do you know when to let go? You simply make a decision based on what you know at that moment in time and the rest is pretty much fate.

[Lucky098]

Oh Alty! Don't beat yourself up over it. Jasper lived a good, long life.. that is more than any dog could ask for.

Unless GDV is caught right away, its very fatal. Even if the dog makes it through surgery, recovery is still up and down. Whether your vet saw bloat and didn't diagnose it or not, we will never know :( Unfortunately...

But.. there are other things that mimic the symptoms of GDV... In March, I thought my old girl was having an episode of bloat. She didn't want to eat, didn't want to drink, felt uncomfortable and her belly was extended. I rushed her into the vet and abdominal x-rays showed a normal stomach but a dark, fluidy pocket. She had hemangiosarcoma of the spleen and the tumor burst open and was leaking. Typically a very aggressive form of cancer, I decided to give her 24 hours to improve with subq fluids before deciding on surgery.. she did improve... and she is still with me today :) missing a spleen, of course lol

But I know how you feel about maybe not making the right decision. I've been there and I have definitely learned how things should have been. Its not my fault, my mom's fault.. and it is definitely not your fault for what you decided to do with you Jasper. Things happen :( It sucks... but they do happen. He may not have had GDV or any form of it.. he may have had a tumor that spread quickly... sometimes tumors aren't easy to find with a regular x-ray machine.. and unfortunately if the vet doesn't see a reason to send you to a specialty hospital, they won't.

Its all a tough call.. and like I've said for a few years now.. it is so hard to find a good vet...

But just know that you did everything right for Jasper.. your vet may have not been 100% for your case.. but with him crashing and burning so fast, I'm not certain that anyone else could have done better... And I don't mean that in a bad or mean way..

You said he limped... Osteosarcoma is what I think of.. and this is a very fast moving, aggressive cancer. And he may have had it for a long time but no one knew until it was too late.. That's the crappy thing about dogs... they're so good at hiding pain and discomfort until its literally too late.

Just don't beat yourself up.. If you feel as if you need a different vet, than by all means do so.. just don't blame yourself for not doing enough...

[Alty]

Thank you everyone. You've made me feel better. Bottom line, it's too late, and second guessing, wondering what if, won't change anything.

My husband said to me that he believes this all happened for a reason. Indy and Jasper are together, that's what we believe, and it had to be that way in order for Rascal to come into our lives. Everything was meant to happen the way it did.

We miss Indy and Jasper so much, but Chewy and Rascal are loved just as much as Indy and Jasper were. They're family.

One thing Jasper has taught me, more than any other dog I've ever had, is that you never know when life will take a turn. You have to enjoy every moment you have. A dogs life is too short to begin with, and every day is precious.

So we're living, and finding things to smile about, which isn't hard when you have a clumsy puppy in your home. :)

[Bearandfox]

Thank you all for your imput.

[Alty]

Thank you all for your imput.

Let us know what breed you decide on.

[Bearandfox]

I have decided on a lab. Thank you so much, everybody, for helping. I esspecially thank Alty, who continuously helped me again and again. Thank you so much, everybody!

[Alty]

I have decided on a lab. Thank you so much, everybody, for helping. I esspecially thank Alty, who continuously helped me again and again. Thank you so much, everybody!

I hope you come back to post pictures when you get your new puppy. We love pictures, especially puppy pictures. :)

If you ever need any help, especially with training, feeding, anything, we're here.