[xsosorry]

Sorry in advance for the long post!

Hi everyone. I posted a few days ago about my charge with theft under $5000 and impersonation (trying to pass for someone who was under 18, as I am 19. This is my first offense). After doing some research, it seems to be that whether I am convicted, not convicted (withdrawn, dismissed, stayed or diversion) or discharged, it will still show up in the CPIC. If I am convicted, I have a criminal record and I can apply for a pardon, but it will always show up on the CPIC and will prevent me from travelling regardless of whether a pardon is granted. If I am not convicted, I have no criminal record but the charges will still be found in the CPIC and I can apply to have my file destroyed after a certain amount of time. If I am discharged (absolute or conditional), I do have a criminal record and my record will be purged after 1 year and 3 years respectively. HOWEVER, conditional and absolute discharges may appear on criminal background checks and vulnerable sector screenings. Can someone confirm these facts for me?

I am going to school in the states in the next few years to become a pediatrician. If this shows up on the vulnerable sector screening, I will not be able to pursue my career as it deals with vulnerable people (children), or go to school in the states. This was obviously a horrible decision. I have a lot going for me and I travel to the states for my job, I dance professionally in the states at least twice a year (to train under Britney Spears' choreographer), I have family who live in the states. I am supposed to travel overseas this summer to do volunteer work with a program similar to Doctors Without Borders, as well as the International Student Volunteers program. Last year I raised $70,000 and a wheelchair van for the children's hospital in my city through my dance company. It is my personal decision not to drink, and I get up in the middle of the night to make sure my friends are all home safe from bars and parties. I am not a bad person, but I did make a bad decision. I need to make sure this does not show up on a criminal record, a criminal background check or a vulnerable person screening.

Also, can anyone tell me what the difference between purged record and file destruction is?

[rlrl2010]

The jurisdiction and court you were involved with, public defenders office associated with that court or a criminal lawyer are the best people to answer your questions

I can tell you that in NY state a conditional DC is a conviction and can be part of the public record, but a conditional discharge may mean different things in other states. A conditional DC is like an unsupervised probation in NY where the defendant agrees to pay a fine, maybe do community svce, lead a law abiding life

[rlrl2010]

With respect to purging and file destruction, I can tell you this

In NY when a defendant is arrested but not convicted of a crime, the record is what is known as "sealed" which means that the record is still there but is protected from view

And then NY sends the FBI an expungement order to remove your prints from their files. In that respect expungement means physically removed or destroyed

[Fr_Chuck]

Sorry FBI does not destroy fingerprints on file. The FBI file has fingerprints for ID purpose, anyone who goes to work for the boy scouts, gets a gun permit, teaches school or arrested are all fingerprinted and they are keep on file.

[rlrl2010]

So why did my FBI record come back with a no records found when I ran my prints? NY sent me a letter saying the expungement order was sent to the FBI

Are you saying they won't show up on a check for anything other than what you mention above?

[AK lawyer]

... NY sent me a letter saying the expungement order was sent to the FBI
...

A state court cannot order a federal agency like the FBI to do anything unless there is a federal statute authorizing such action.

... are you saying they won't show up on a check for anything other than what you mention above?

They don't check to see if persons "work for the boy scouts, gets a gun permit, teaches school or arrested". Those are only some of the times when prints are recorded. I had my prints taken when I was a boy scout, in order to qualify for a merit badge.

The check is to determine the identity of whoever has those prints.

[rlrl2010]

My prints would have remained in the system until NY ordered the expungement which they told me in writing they did and it appears it was done since my prints were returned with no arrest record found

This was from a misdemeanor arrest to a guilty plea to a non criminal offense, and part of NY state sealing order 160.55 is to send a sealing order to the FBI ordering expungement

Yes I have heard that the FBI is not obligated to honor a states expungement order but most of the time they do

FBI CJIS customer service told me on the phone that once your prints are removed and your record is clear the info will not show on a background check

[rlrl2010]

So is it that the info about the arrest is removed when expunged but that the prints name and SS# stay?

[Fr_Chuck]

Your prints are not your criminal record, A set of fingerprints merely match the ID.

Your NCIC report ( which is not your fingerprint) is where your cirminal record is.

And on expunged items, only law enforcement and national security background searches will see them.

Again, sorry you are wrong, I worked in and for the system and fingerprints are never destroyed, The federal government has no obligation to follow any state court order.

Your record is sealed ( again never destroyed) even in your local state court, the record you were at court, a copy of the court transcript will always exist somewhere, it has to in case there is future law suits about it. The court doc for that day, the court schedule.

That does not even start to address the 100's of private search companies that find and down load legal records daily, once they get the info, they are not under any obligation to ever delete any records.

Also the prints just give info like name, perhaps physcial discription, tattoo, missing fingers, how to tell John smith ( number 1003) from John smith (20,004)

[xsosorry]

Thanks for the answers everyone, but I am actually in Canada. I had asked my defence lawyer a couple questions pertaining to this before I knew what a vulnerable sector screening was and she couldn't give me an answer. After reading wikipedia (which is not a very reliable source so I'm not too sure how accurate this is), it says that a "level 3 check" will include any discharges which have not been removed. I am guessing "removed" is synonymous with "purged". A level 4 check will include any police records and court records, which you can have destroyed be contacting the police station that arrested you (but it can sometimes be rejected). A vulnerable sector check is a level 4 check but will also include convictions of a sexual or violent nature that HAVE received a pardon.

Again, thanks everyone for the help. If you have any info about Canada I would love to hear it. I am truly regretful about the decision I made, and I do not want this to haunt me forever. I don't want my future family to be affected by it because I can't get a good job, or travel with them.

[rlrl2010]

The court in NY that issues the sealing order doesn't contact the FBI to order expungement. They order NY DCJS to destroy the prints (a set of prints remains for LE however) so it does not show up on a regular employment check where you will NOT be carrying a gun

Then NY DCJS sends the expungement order to the FBI

According to the letter sent to me by NY DCJS and the results of my print check at the FBI it appears that the expungement was done

But as you say FBI records is NOT your criminal record but NCIC is your criminal record, what is the point of NY contacting the FBI requesting expungement? It says in NY CPL 160.55 sealing order that the prints pertaining to the arrest have to be recalled from the "United States"

If I am fingerprinted through the FBI say for a job at a bank or a museum or a hospital, will my expunged record show?

If I try to get a security clearance will my record show?

[rlrl2010]

Yes Fr Chuck you are absolutely right, there is a record of the guilty plea in the court which is accessible by anyone, including background reporting companies

However, security clearances, fingerprint checks, don't use court records, they use the confidential arrest records that are fingerprint based, which is why I ask because my FBI record came back in the clear, so I am curious

[Fr_Chuck]

But the issue is that private companies get copies of court records, more and more companies are using background searches that are not government or police searches, but private. They have records of everything from Facebook posts to all the criminal records they can get.

When the NCIC records are printed, what is printed depends on who is asked. When we got our copies we saw any charge dismissed, any charge expunged, all records.

If Walmart asked to see a record, they did not see the arrests just convictions, and nothing expunged. Their version of "sealed" is the rules that the people who run the system operate under and the type of search request that is done.

[rlrl2010]

Fr Chuck if someone applying for a security clearance honestly checks "no" to the questions because their arrest/conviction didn't apply (was over 7 years ago and wasn't a misdemeanor) and the info still came back on the background check, would the authorities still call the applicant out on the record, even though they were honest in their answers?

[noooooo]

Hi xsosorry,

I am in a very similar situation to you and you have asked the exact questions that I am worried about.

I have just talked with my defense lawyer yesterday, and according to what he has said, diversion program is the same as a withdraw, which is different from a discharge. A discharge means you have to plead guilty or have a sentence on the case, but a withdraw does not have any clue on it and no court records would be shown on file.

The lawyer suggested me to ask for a vulnerable sector check after the file (fingerprinters & photograph) is destroyed. Maybe you can just wait for few months and have the check done by yourself. It is certain that no criminal record or whatsoever will show up, but I am not sure if it would suggest that the person was arrested or some police records.

I am very worried about it as well. I cannot even focus on my final exams. So if you have ever get the chance to find out what is going to happen in the future or on those checks, please let me know and I greatly appreciate!

[xsosorry]

Hey noooo,

My charges were diverted this past Thursday (yes!! ) Of course I have yet to complete the diversion, but upon completion of diversion, my charges will be STAYED- not withdrawn, according to my lawyer and the lawyer I spoke to when I was detained. That may be different for your case though, as they can be withdrawn or stayed after completion of the diversion.

According to my lawyer and another lawyer I spoke to, charges that are dealt with by means of diversion are NOT entered into CPIC, meaning you are safe to cross the border. The lawyer I spoke to when I was detained said that they are, but I should still be able to cross the border as I was not convicted of anything. Even if I was, I would fall under the petty offense exception as it would have been a) 1 conviction, 2) time served was less than 6 months in jail, and 3) max. sentence was less than a year (as long as the Crown proceeded summarily... but it doesn't even matter as I wasn't convicted anyway). According to pardon websites and other people on this website, I don't want to risk border crossing as I run the risk of being entered into the FBI file, regardless of the fact that I was't convicted. I think I'll just wait for a file destruction!

According to the various file destruction/pardon agencies I've spoken to, I must wait 6 months to a year to apply for file destruction. One agency said that a diversion is 6 months, another said it is a year (which is true is my charges are stayed.) It really depends where you are in Canada. I know some cities in Ontario are 2 years for diversion, some are 1 year. I am in Winnipeg and a local agency said that the Local records won't be destroyed for a year. So after a year, I can apply, and it takes about a year to go through. Nothing should show up on a vulnerable sector check after that.

Another poster here was in the same situation as us very recently, and hasn't had a file destruction yet (their charges were withdrawn in October of last year, I believe). Nothing appeared on their vulnerable sector check. When I talked to the RCMP awhile ago, they said the only thing that shows on a vulnerable sector check is pardoned sexual or violent offences. I have read on other websites that diversions ARE and ARE NOT included on vulnerable sector searches. Again, it depends on the city.

Good luck! I'm with you on the final exams. Keep me updated on your case.

[Fr_Chuck]

Closed, OP has many threads on same subject in violation of site rules,