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gtrianta · Jan 13, 2012, 07:59 AM

Hi guy I live in Massachusetts. I have a question on a clean out requirement, and how to properly install. I attached a picture, it's a little old, and kitchen is mach further along now. The plumbing is also dry fit, so it can be changed. You can see in the picture there is a window. The sink will be in the middle of the sink. So, I have to pull over the horizontal pipe off the vertial (which you see in the picture attched to the galvanized pipe) The question is 1) I plan on using a trap which in which although one end of the trap gets glued, the other can be separated at the trap, and what goes on to the tail pipe of the sink. So do you need another cleanout? If so, if I come out of the back of the wall, its inly about 12" from the back of the cabinet to put the trap, and a second cleanout, and get it to the sink tail pipe. Is it required? How would you do it cleanly?
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/u...C00374Rev1.jpg

massplumber2008 · Jan 13, 2012, 10:48 AM

Hi Gtrianta

To start, that waste may be a little high (17" off finish floor) if you are installing a disposal AND you have a deep sink coming... usually rough in at 12-15" off finish floor.

In terms of the cleanout requirement, all the code says is that you must have ONE full size cleanout under the sink. This cleanout can be a PTRAP with a union fitting (see image) or it can be a cleanout on a test tee fitting or wye fitting... ;)

If you decide you want to go overkill you can install a wye fitting on the horizontal just as the pipe comes into the cabinet and install a cleanout in the RUN of the wye fitting (in the end)... off the branch of the wye fitting you install the pipes to the drain. Then install the union ptrap and you will be protected 100%, for sure.

More questions just let me know, OK?

Mark

gtrianta · Jan 13, 2012, 06:34 PM

Thanks Mark, the trap you show is exactly what I was planning on using. Also see that why I got rid of that setup, someone had told me I could just use, what I think is called a sanitary tee there. I could put which ever is correct as everything is dry fit.

And yes I wanted to use a 9 -10" sink. Not too crazy about disposals, but wanted to set the puts up just incase later I wanted to install it.

When you install for a disposal in my setup right off the bat do you make sure you come just about dead center from the middle or the back of the cabinet? So if I come out the back of the cabinet to hit my sink middle, maybe its 12", and if 8" is the disposal, gets pretty tight to get the trap in

massplumber2008 · Jan 14, 2012, 06:18 AM

You can't use a sanitary tee as a cleanout (fitting has "direction" to it)... must use the union ptrap or a TEST TEE (see image) or you could also use an END CLEAN OUT in the end of a wye fitting. You should also chanme out that wye/45 degree fitting for a sanitary tee fitting or the vent will not help the sink to drain properly! Water pipes should be moved to inside the cabinet.

Finally, for almost all kitchen sinks I install I bring the pipe into the cabinet on the extreme left or right of the cabinet... never centered... ;) This setup leaves me the most options for ptrap and cleanout placement.

Mark

gtrianta · Jan 14, 2012, 02:12 PM

Thanks Mark... On the wye I was referring to what's in the picture above. The one with the 45 in it. Is that correct? I changed it to a sanitary tee. I can switch to which ever is correct. Also is 1 1/2" ok for sizes?

Also, I have a brick home, with you know, the standard air gap, then the 2x4 wall with the sheeting between. So from the outside, its brick/air gap (1" - 11/2")/sheeting (3/4")applied to the 2x4's. Only R-11 insulation could fit in there. So originally for water I had it in the wall. Since it's an outside wall, I got a little nervous with pipe freezing, so I have decided against it for now. Hate to drill up through the floor, but your recommendation and what you have done historically is appreciated.

massplumber2008 · Jan 14, 2012, 05:23 PM

Changing out the wye/45 fitting was good... not allowed the way you had it, so it was good to change that to a sanitary tee fitting, for sure! Just be sure not to use a sanitary tee as a cleanout, too.

Also, moving the water pipes from the outside wall and up through the floor is the ONLY way to do the water pipes in Massachusetts.

Great job!

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 14, 2012, 05:30 PM

You did good by changing that wye to a tee. San tee must be used for your trap arm tie in, wye and 1/8 bend would eliminate the functionallity of the vent. So you got that right. Also, you would be correct not to install the water lines in an outside wall. Stub them up through the bottom of the cabinet to avoid potential freezing. Not 100% sure on your winters there, but no water lines are allowed by code in outside walls where temps drop below freezing.

Also, I agree with Mark about drain placement. I would rough it in any higher than 15" floor to center, and would decide which side the garbage disposal would go if you do install one, and then stub the drain out on the oposite side of the cabinet (at least 8" from center of sink to the left or right, whichever is opposite the disposal).

gtrianta · Jan 15, 2012, 11:53 AM

On hopefully last question. I have used a 1 1/2" pipe going to the 11/2" sanitary tee from the sink. And the other end goes to the 11/2" vent.

Now the bottom on the sanitary tee is 2" and as you can see in the pic, is probably 12-15" off the tee, then 90's under the floor, and continues for just about 12 ft. I have to make additional connections after that to the final drain.

Question...is the 2" overkill? Should I just make evrything 11/2"?

gtrianta · Jan 15, 2012, 12:13 PM

By the way the nsink will have also the diswasher attached, if that makes a difference. Maybe in the future a disposal, which I doubt as long as I have the house

massplumber2008 · Jan 15, 2012, 03:05 PM

Picture didn't show up... please repost. However, running 2" is always the best job for a kitchen sink, especially if you consider installing that disposal someday!

gtrianta · Jan 15, 2012, 03:17 PM

Oh sorry, I was using the same pict above still as a reference.

With your recommendation to go with 2", Should I also change the 1 1/2" trap to a 2"? Or will I be ok, with 1 1/2" trap, going with the 20" of 1 1/2" pvc, and then into the sanitary tee?

massplumber2008 · Jan 16, 2012, 07:01 AM

If you really want to, I'd bring 2" into the cabinet and install a full size 2" cleanout off a 2"x1.5" wye fitting... the 1.5" branch of the wye runs to the 1.5" union ptrap and sink drain(s).

Be clear that in MA, however, you are only required to pipe 1.5". 2" is just a better job!

Mark