[canecarrie]

Hi Dr. Bill - while I'm not currently in trouble for drinking or failing a test, I'm being held to them and am trying to help my attorney with information on validity. I know most is conflicting - for us/him to sort out. Still, I found a recent report, by Hollander I believe, with results I cannot review "Urinary Ethyl Glucuronide and Ethyl Sulfate Testing for Recent Drinking in Alcohol-Dependent Outpatients Treated with Acamprosate or Placebo". I am not sure how much results are dependent on the meds re. Consumption amounts, EtG levels, timing, cutoffs, etc. But wondering if you know, or could shed some light.

Also, I've seen a lot of info about 1 drink at 18-20 hours APPROX at 100 cut off. I know it varies, but what might you guesstimate at 500 cuttoff? Also, 2-3 drinks at this cut-off? I have read no more than 24 hours in several references for even this many. Again, I know this varies, and with conflicting evidence that even no consumption can provide positive (thought likely at 100 test levels)... I would be VERY curious if you think there is any validity to the claim that 3 drinks could go undetected at 24ish hours as well at 500. (female, history of alcoholism, sober approx. 4 years, mid-30s, fit). The point is to show these tests can be dangerous - could be false a standard in either direction and too risky a measure.

Please help ASAP if you can. Court date Thurs! Thanks :)

[DrBill100]

The most compelling argument against the validity of the test isn't that results can vary by individual synthesis and elimination. Rather, it derives from the fact that after you provide a urine sample the EtG content can, and generally does change. It may diminish due to the presence of bacteria See Toxicology News, 2009. A study conducted by Rana & Ross, Redwood Toxicology, found that positive samples from the previous day had changed within a 24 hour period, some with more EtG, some with less. 52% of the samples had changed by a very significant amount from one day to the next.

This confirmed the earlier finding of Helander, 2009 that "Unpreserved urines stored without cooling should not be used for alcohol testing, given the high risk for microbial interference." Most clinical labs receive unpreserved samples stored at room temperature (Rana & Ross, above)

EtG testing is not allowed in the federally mandated drug testing program. A 2006 Advisory from the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration deemed it "..inappropriate and scientically unsupportable.." That Advisory is still in effect.

As to a reference for 3 drinks undetected at 24 hours please see Wojcik & Hawthorne. This study also points out the confusing mix of cutoffs and the various systems that are used to time elimination.

Amounts in the range of 2-3 drinks are dealt with in the following:

Sarkola, 2003
Halter, 2008
Helander, 2004
Dahl, 2002
Hoiseth, 2008

It concerns me a bit that you are going into court without proper background and documentation.

[canecarrie]

My attorney actually now feels it's better "the court believes the random covers longer periods" as my own cya (I'm drinking anyway), and making argument other way looks like cover up. My concern is, with Ethanol tests, at least I can comfortably wear perfume, and eat, and use purell with my children... and it may potentially cover the same time. That said, covering my ***, ensures my kids!! Even after 4.5 years believe it or not!

Next question: Does the fed. Mandated drug program not allow it because it is unrelaible? Against rights? Any documents to refer to?

Also, are there other states that have outlawed and/or "disallowed"? (I'm in Illinois?).

Finally, I saw you reference a 2008 study of beer consumption relative to dilution with 26 or something hour for 3-4 drinks EtG. My interest is in the comparaison to ethanol as well as the EtG content detection vs. past studies.

Thanks!

PS - any insight into that recent 2011 study I mentioned?

[DrBill100]

The 2011 study for some reason isn't fully available on line. I read the methods and it does not look at the influence of medications on EtG. It is evaluating acamprosate a drug used in alcohol rehabilitation and uses EtG to detect drinking when denied.

It hasn't been prohibited in any state, by law. It is used mostly in private industry, schools, etc where any test is allowed so long as the testing labs can sell their clients on it.

I don't understand your final question.

The SAMHSA publication disallows because it is unreliable. Full copy is available by clicking on above link.

You do not want to compare detection times. All studies will show that EtG is detectable for much longer periods than ethanol. It peaks about 4-5 hours after ethanol.

[canecarrie]

Oops! I meant to say I'm NOT drinking anyway!!

[Lilred1899]

Drbill100,
I am currently on probation for a DUI and I take etg's on a regular basis. I received a call today that I had a positive. I have not drank so I am planning to have them retest the sample which means they will use an ets. My cutoff is at 500ng and my po says I was at 700ng. Is it worth it to get the sample retested?