[wallabee4]

We recently had to move from 5 acres pasture/barn to small town rental home with high borad fenced yards around very home in rural community. This is temp for us (been here 4 months, have to remain another 8 months) We moved with 2 Australian Shepherds, bro and sis, age 7. They are obedience trained to come when we call, heel, sit, lie down, stay. Dogs have never been on our furniture, my husband is Alpha dog. We are not allowed to have dogs inside rental home. In this small home/yard we are surrounded by other homes and our dogs bark at everything that passes by. Not prolonged unless the 'tresspasser' is there for a long time--we had one problem with neighbor 2 doors down who let his cat sit on post of our fence and torment dogs to bark bark bark. --I would shoo cat and quite dogs and cat would come back within minutes. I finally went up street asking who owned the cat. Explained situuation to owner. We finally ran electric wire on our fence to deter both dog and cat (after twice speaking to neighbor who at first claimed cat was indoor cat that had accidentally gotten out then later said they'd checked and found there was no city ordinance about cats and that it was our problem, not theirs.--nice, huh?) We got a complaint fom police about our dogs barking. A warning that if we didn't quiet our dogs to reasonable levels, we would be fined $100. Another instance occurrred when repairman came to fix our mailbox post unexpectedly when we weren't home. His working right outside our fence for an hour caused dogs to bark prolongedly again and same anonymous neighbor complained to police, who left another warning in our door. Police confirmed when he stopped to leave note dogs barked at him but quieted when he said to quiet down. Police didn't consdier it excessive, but told me to do something when I'm not home to quiet the dogs. I now have violated my lease and sneaked my dogs inside the garage at night and whenever I run even the shortest errand and leave home:( (I am home most days otherwise). Dogs do tend to bark more often at things when it's just me home and not my husband. I have taken dogs aside to get them riled up and barking and then given hand signal to hush and they quiet for me. If they bark at something when I am home, I quiet them as soon as I can--sometimes I am on the toilet or on a phonecall (corded phone) and can't get there right away. I have done ebverything I can think of. BUT my dogs ALWAYS bark when there is something ouside our fence. (unfortunately that can incude wild deer and turkeys and start dogs and cats in our neighborhood, as well as pedestrians.) Next door neighbor has 2 larger dogs who howl occasionally. (I've never had a dog who howled) but I hear it and figure, 'OK, the dog is howling. Big deal' It doesn't go on forever. (neither do my dogs bark forever) Yet I have gotten yet another complaint from next door neighbor who owns theses dogs (and she somewhat socializes with us--has been over for dinner, has a couple times had her grandkids play with my kids) She knows I am trying to recover from severe depression (deaths of my parents, traumatic illness, moving stress, many other things) as well as trying to get our business back on its feet after our recent move to a new area. I have asked her to come and meet my dogs and establish a sense of hierarchy with them so that if she yells 'hush' from her side of the fence they can respond to her as well as to me. She tells me she doesn't have time for that and she wants the dogs to stop barking at her when she comes home (her dogs whine when she pulls in her driveway and mine bark in response to the whining). I can empathize with her. I wouldn't want to have a neighbor's dog bark at me every time I walked in my own back yard. But I don't know what else to do. It doesn't seem to be good enough that I quiet them as soon as humanly possible whenever they bark, in her opinion, they aren't supposed to BE BARKING. (I ADMIT, I, TOO, AM DISMAYED THAT MY DOGS CANNOT DISTINGUISH A NEIGHBOR WHO HAS NOW LIVED ON OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE FOR 4 MONTHS AND A STRAY ANIMAL RUNNING LOOSE IN NEIGHBORHOOD.) I have considered that our dogs are bored/not getting enough exercise although they are free to run the enclosed back yard all day. But this town has a MAJOR problem with dogs running loose and if I try to take my dogs for a walk through town on a leash, I am confronted unexpectedly by strange dogs running loose. (I have toddler I must take in tow when I walk dog and I feel this is unsafe) My male can pull me off the ground if he wants to take chase. Both my dogs stay on a heel but other loose dogs come right up to us and once or twice I've feared aggression. So, alone I do not walk my dogs.
QUESTIONS: If I can somehow find a solution for regular walks, will this change my dogs barking at everything outside their fence when they are home?
What training must I do with my dogs to get them not to even bark once at whatever is outside fence and/or at least not bark at familiar things like my neighbor in her own yard/driveway? (The fence is not see-through. My neighbor is unwilling to participate in any training. I also want to be able to undo such training once we leave this rental home as we will be back on a larger acreage farm and I want/need dogs to bark at anything that ventures onto property. Shock collars don't work well on our dogs unless I keep them shaved completely around the neck as they are very wooly.)

I am driving myself literally nuts with this coupled with depression. My husband works away fom home for long stretches. And I must interrupt any and every task from doing homework with my kids to using the bathroom to jump up and immediately quiet my dogs or fear neighbor complaints. I am upset with the lack of compassion/understanding from my neighbor (considering her dogs aren't perfect either) that when I think I am already doing everything humanly possible she STILL complains and I feel hopeless on top of an ongoing depression.

[labman]

I don't have a good solution to this. You have made a major change in the dogs' lives at an age when they are slow to adjust. It may have been a mistake to accept a rental where you couldn't have the dogs inside. Finding a rental that would allow 2 moderate sized dogs could have been tough and perhaps more than you could afford.

You chose herding dogs that tend to bark, and have encouraged them most of their life to do just what they are doing, alerting you to strangers. And the neighbors offended by the barking need to direct their complaints to those letting their dogs and cats run loose. It will never happen.

I see no solution to problems with loose dogs when you are walking, and doubt if the walks would help that much.

It is funny how we are expected to accept loud music, motorcycles, fire crackers, and all manner of other noise from recreational activities, but if a dog barks, people call the police.

I am glad you rejected the shock collar. They can be highly effective, but leave some dogs a basket case.

I am afraid your best solution may be to move, but that may not be possible. Could you negotiate with the landlord? The best solution to a barking dog is to bring it in.

I am glad you took time to post all the details. I am sorry I am not much help. I will be surprised if anybody else has any humane, workable solutions. Not every problem has a good solution.

[RubyPitbull]

I am in complete agreement with Labman. This is not an easy solution and I definitely feel for you. I too have a lot of acreage as you did, and have trained my dog to bark when strangers approach. When we visit friends and family who live closer to their neighbors than we do, it can be a problem.

I do not like shock collars. I won't use them. With aussie sheps in particular, it is always a bad idea. They are a smart and sensitive breed and can do a lot of damage to them emotionally.

However, there is another collar out there that addresses the barking problem. It is much more humane and there have been many people who have had great success with it. It uses a citronella spray. When they bark, a very small spray is released. It doesn't harm their vision and/or sense of smell. However, most dogs don't like it. It is the combination of the smell with the surprise of the spray that deters them. As I stated, you have a very smart breed. They should respond very quickly to this. Just be warned that because of their brain power, they may find a way to get the collar off! :) I have included two websites that should help you get started. Please read as much as you can about this collar before you decide to purchase. These are just two sites. You can do a search and get many more that will give you further explanations and pricing. Before you use them, make sure you read and follow the directions for use very carefully.

Please ignore any of the other suggestions to stop barking dogs. I do not recommend the other suggestions, just the citronella collar.


Stop dog barking.

Stop Barking Dog Collars


If you choose to do this, please come back and tell us how they worked for you. If they don't work, Labman, myself, or someone else, may have another idea. Good Luck!

[labman]

I would never suggest those collars, but they may be the best of a number of unattractive choices. Sometimes life is tough.

[RubyPitbull]

I agree Labman. I have not used them on my dog and don't particularly like them. But, it is the safest of the unattractive choices and have seen some success with them. Sounded like she was between a rock and a hard place. Not much choice if she doesn't want to be fined or kicked out, only constructive advice I could think of.:confused:

Once she shows that she is making some sort of an attempt, it might be easier to have a discussion with the police dept at a later time to avoid a fine, if she doesn't want to, or can't, move.

[wallabee4]

I have read all about those collars. THANKS. In your opinions, will these deter my dogs from barking LATER when we move and I need them to bark again? If they aren't wearing the collars? Also, it seems like the write up is about nuisance barking, not barking AT something. Any opinions/tests you've tried/heard of that this will actually DISTRACT a dog barking AT something and not just barkng out of boredom/misbehavior? I know once my aussies key in on something to herd they are off and almost there before they will break concentration and return to my voice commmand

[RubyPitbull]

I know exactly what you mean wallabee.

I personally know of 7 people who have used the collar. Two of those people had the same problem that you are having. Barking at people as they passed by their yards. Both were successful in resolving the issue. I remember one person out of the 7 had no success at all, but don't recall the specific reason why they tried it. I do recall another person had success in your type of situation, although the yard wasn't fenced. The dog would just bark if he heard ANY noise. That person told me the dog figured out over a short period, that when the collar wasn't on him, he could bark. When the collar was on, he wouldn't bark. The others I just don't recall the specifics, I am sorry. It has been a while.

Regarding your other concern, you bring up a good question. It is hard to say whether this collar may totally ruin your dogs as watchdogs. There is always the possibility that it very well may. I don't want to lead you down the wrong path and say that this will resolve the situation that you need it for, and there won't be any repercussions from using it. That is why Labman and I both don't like using these kind of tools. There are no guarantees and you don't know what the consequences might be.

As I said in my earlier posting, it sounded like you were really in a bit of a pickle here and I was trying to come up with something constructive for you to consider. It really is a judgement call on your part, which is why I suggested reading as much as you can about the collar.

The only other thought that came to mind is taking one of your dogs (the one that is the friendlier of the two with strangers) with you to the police station. When you walk in, try to concentrate on the officers faces when you step through the door. You can usually tell when someone is a dog person. Go up to that officer and talk to him about everything that you have laid out here to us. All the other dogs and cats being loose and wandering, stressing you keep them locked up and you are a responsible dog owner,. Ask him if he has any advice or suggestions to offer. Maybe once they know you are seriously trying to be a responsible and good neighbor and get to know you on a personal level, they might side step issuing you a ticket/fine.

That is all I can come up with. Thought this might be worth a shot. I figure you can't really lose anything trying it.?

[wallabee4]

Thanks. Cops HAVE commiserated with me, they all own dogs but fortunately live out of city limits and let their dogs bark... No one had any advice expect you and Labman, so again THANKS for something to try. Nice to hear someone used it and it did work. I'm guessing my aussies will also figure out no collar=no spray. If I try it I'll let you know.

[RubyPitbull]

Yes, please come back and do let us know. Always adds to the knowledge base. :)

[wallabee4]

Update: Got a citronella collar on E-Bay new fairly cheap. Put it on our aussie female, whom my husband has deemed dumber than a box of rocks. She barks, it sprays here, she couldn't care less. Once I was on opposite side of house outside 6 ft board fence when she started barking at a neighbor passing by and I could smell the citronella from where I stood, but she kept barking. My male, a very bright boy, when he just stood beside her and got some overspray he looked at me like he'd done something wrong. I put collar on him and within one spray he was coming to me, invisible tail between his legs begging me to stop whatever it was. In the meantime, my husband recorded his voice correcting the dogs and if I play the tape the dogs when the dogs bark they quiet a lot faster than they do to my commands and stay a bit more quiet through out the day.

Sooo... my Q is, does anybody know a barking collar that activates a recording of an owner's voice command instead of shocking or spraying?

Also, it turns out the latest complaint about 'my' dogs barking was in fact not about MY dogs but about my neighbor's howling dogs. The neighbor with the howling dogs is the one who told me the neighbor behind us had complained. Evidently misunderstanding that it wasn't my dogs the complaint was about, but her own dogs...

[RubyPitbull]

Hi Wallabee! Nice to "see" you again. I hope everything is well with you (besides the dog problem). :) I am not aware of any dog collar such as the one you are describing. They do make personalized voice recording toys for dogs that will activate when the dog starts moving it around. I am wondering if there isn't a way to combine the two. Well, maybe labman will know of something that I am not aware of. I will look around and see if there are any links or ideas that I can post here.

[labman]

Unfortunately I still don't have any good ideas. The barking is a social thing, and may feed on the other dogs too. If you notice, usually if one dog starts barking, all the dogs in the neighborhood bark.

If they will quiet for your husband, maybe you need to work on making them respect you as a leader too. See Establishing and Keeping Alpha Position

[RubyPitbull]

Guess what? I found something. I cannot verify that it works and it is not cheap but at least it is something you might want to investigate:

Yardiac.com - Bark Free Dog Repeller

[wallabee4]

Just need someone to chat with here... OK. For almost 8 months now I have had my dogs what I thought was completely trained. They bark a few woofs if someone approaches my fence and then all I have to do is whistle 3 times and they stop barking, and go lie down in the doorways of their kennels. And when I leave home for any reason I kennel them inside my garage and at night I kennel them in the garage. They make no sound at night.

BUT today my neighbor lady told me that I need to train my dogs. (who already know English and German voice commands and hand signals for 7 commands and now have 2 whistles for commands.)

What am I to train them to do you might ask? Evidently to not even give those few woofs. She tells me that she has a grandchild (age 3) down for a nap and so my dogs shouldn't bark (it's 12 noon) and her bedroom is on the far side of her house from mine. Her garage is all that faces my home--does she have the child asleep in her garage? I don't know... Further, she tells me that my dogs shouldn't bark when she comes home and pulls into her driveway. Yet she can walk between her garage and my fence (which is about an 8 ft passageway) back and forth several times unloading stuff from her car and her dogs who are chained to a post in her back yard whine a high-pitched squeal, evidently thinking she is coming out to feed them while my dogs sit and watch her and don't even bark.

She told me tonight that my dogs are constantly barking--this while she and I are talking right outside my fence where my dogs are not barking by the way. I made mention of that and she said 'they bark every time I come home' I told her that was a lie because if she comes home after dark my dogs are kenneled and d not bark. So she tells me so why don't you leave your dogs out one night and I'll drive in and out every hour and we'll see what they do? (?? ) And then I remarked how my kids and I had sat at my dining room table and watched my dogs do nothing while she was unloading her car beside my fence back and forth for almost 20 minutes. She said, 'well, you had your dogs under control then.' (And isn't that what she wants? No. She wants the dogs to magically never bark again without me doing anything to control them. So I guess I should sit at my dining room table more often? )

Her dogs are chained because she couldn't train them from jumping her fence. When she comes home (even late at night) and comes back to her back yard to feed her dogs, the female one whines a high pitched (like fingers on a chalkboard). (The first time I heard it 2 years ago I thought somehting had happened to her dog--like it was stuck on its chain and I ran to see what I could do, but learned that's just the dog makes when it thinks it's about to be fed or rescued however briefly from its chain.) Her dogs also howl at sirens even in the middle of the night and she's never trained them to do otherwise and she's never kenneled her dogs indoors at night to not disturb the neighbors (both my house and 2 houses to her rear have bedrooms that side her dog kennel.)


And yet when I bike ride in our neighborhood there are several dogs who come to their fences and woof. I usually say, "Hey, pup, you're doing a good job" and bike on.


I've done the bend-over backward sympathetic good neighbor thing, then I've done the ignore her completely thing, and now she sits on her porch and takes every opportunity to make comments about my dogs to my kids when they are out playing in my driveway.

So I made the mistake of having a conversation with her about it today and now I am all stressed out again and my health at this point doesn't need this. (I'm having a thyroid biospy in 3 weeks)

If you were me, what would you do?

[JudyKayTee]

If you were me, what would you do?

You also posted this on another board and I would do exactly what I said there - in the steps I listed.