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sunnysky · Nov 16, 2011, 08:11 AM

Installing a new toilet , to a lead waste pipe revealed oval shape due to joist interference from previous installer. Now I needed to offset 1/2" and lead flange is damaged not sealing to flange cover. How can I seal the PVC flange cover to irregular waste pipe with up to 1/2" gaps to ensure water tight. Wax seal is not enough. SHould I use bondex or polyurethane or ? To seal interface from PVC flange cover to irregular shaped waste pipe in floor for toilet?

massplumber2008 · Nov 16, 2011, 11:16 AM

Hi SS

Can you post a picture for us? Let me know, OK?

Here, water is a son-of-a-gun and it will find a way out of the pipe if you try to marry dissimilar materials and you have an oblong fit... I promise!

Most likely you will need to consider cutting out the lead and replacing all with PVC, but let's see a pic. First!

Back to you...

Mark

sunnysky · Nov 16, 2011, 08:01 PM

I have a picture but lost my cam cable. I worked on it all day due to Murphy;s Law. THe lead pipe was already oval due to interference with the joist, but with a 4~5" waste pipe and 2" toilet hole, it should fit. I used Bondo to reinforce the damaged lead waste pipe, then subfloor adhesive around the floor under the flange cover to fill the gap and plumbers putty in the caulk seal area between the flange cover and floor and reinforced with more subfloor adhesive under the flange where there was no wood. I did this because I needed to offset the flange 1" with a saw to floor and hammer to lead, then I had to cut a 1" offset in plaster wall behind and fill with dry wall flush to the inside. Unfortunately the main stack was behind, so it took 4 pcs to make it flush with the stud to gain the full 1". THat was due to the difference in the old and new toilet being 8.5 and 11.5 " offset. I also had to grind 1/4" off the flange of the main stack. What a PITA… of course I couldn't take back my new toilet as it was a private sale from a guy across town who I got a bunch of granite counter tiles and Italian floor ceramic tile.
Did I say Murphy's Law. The copper pipe for the w/c also had to move 6" right in the corner of the room, which presented other challenges in the subfloor , filled with old pipes and tons of wires.. OH YA I discovered the minor drip leak I had 6 yrs ago which started to become a major bucket leak with my old tenants was due the phone company installing a junction boc through the joist and through the lead waste pipe. It started to leak worse then another phone co. guy moved it ( the screw and junction box years later and perhaps later the tenant poke around and removed some shims which also increased the leak, thus opening a hidden hole in the waste almost flush to the joist. Whew. I hope it fits. TONY (AKA Sunnysky.. in Winnipeg)

massplumber2008 · Nov 17, 2011, 06:21 AM

Good luck... sounds like quite a mess, for sure!

sunnysky · Nov 19, 2011, 10:14 PM

I'm finished leveling, painting and ready to put on std WAX ring. Only problem the OULU one PC toilet ring does not have a flat shoulder to support the wax ring. It's like a collar 1cm thick with a 2" (5cm) hole and the wax ring is 3" going into a 4" dia flange cover. Also the neoprene collar in the wax ring will likely interfere unevenly since the collar is shallower on the front side than the rear, meaning the wax ring tilts back when placed.

I thought all wax rings were the same but this one has me baffled.

It seems to need a flange cover on both sides of the wax ring or at least a wax ring with a different shape. Geez how unorthodox to fit a CHinese toilet on a standard American wax ring. Gotta pee.. If I get an answer soon , I can finally install it and flush

The small collar type 2" exit hole on the base of toilet has only a 1/2" annular ring and in no way does not it fit the 3.5" wax ring with a 2" neoprene center going over a 4" flange cover. What gives?

To make matters worse, I would prefer more clearance and would like to offset the toilet and wax ring 1/2~1" on the already offset flange cover (1/2"~1") should work with the right interface.. right? 2" hole into a 4" flange hole. grr.

Fancy Chinese OULU dual flush single piece unit does not have a flat base. More like an inverted 2" jug neck with a 3.5" wax ring around a 4" flange cover on a 5" pipe. It's not rocket science, but it won't fly with me. Home store opens at noon.

I got a waxless interface that almost fits around the toilet exit but not into the flange cover.
I'd have to modify it.
SHould I just smash on 2 wax rings and hope for the best ?
The gap inside the wax ring seems too big to seal with wax given that the base has no flat support under the toilet.
1701.jpg shows a spare flange cover over the toilet to illustrate how a wax ring would not fit well.
Here's my pictures.http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0098009/photos/56894251@N03/

RSVP [email protected] ASAP

I forgot to mention this OULU toilet with dual flush siphon action single PC has no bolts and just sits on the floor rock solid with sealant for adhesive. But if the floor is not flat. Which it is not, it rocks and shims only make it unstable when you lean over with a 0.2" shim. I considered concrete mix or leveler and/or urethane caulk. I think I can deal with that.

Here is the toilet http://www.oulu-cn.com/En/ProductVie...D=689&SortID=5

I've consider using Bondo body filler to create a base for the wax to seal… any ideas?

massplumber2008 · Nov 20, 2011, 08:02 AM

Hard to advise here as I have never worked on a chinese toilet, and I still can't picture how you rigged this all together!

I can only suggest that you consider going out and getting wax rings you are used to working with and make something work much like you did with the waste pipe... ;)

Good luck!

massplumber2008 · Nov 20, 2011, 05:40 PM

Pictures helped... thank you!

Dry fit the toilet in place without any gaskets. Does the toilet sit flat? If it does, install the wax gasket and set the toilet in place using your body weight to squish out the wax gasket and seal to the floor using the adhesive... should be all set here!

If the toilet doesn't sit flat let me know, OK?

sunnysky · Nov 20, 2011, 05:41 PM

IT sits flat on the front and has a gap in the rear. The old toilet had a smaller base with bolts to secure it.

massplumber2008 · Nov 20, 2011, 06:51 PM

My thoughts:

Cut out the rear area of the flange... cut only what you have to and continue dry fitting the toilet bowl until the entire toilet bowl sits flat.

Once the toilet sits flat I'd suggest that you install a URETHANE reinforced wax ring (see image) and set the toilet. It might be helpul to brace the toilet down tight to the floor (using 2"x4" stud or similar) while the adhesive sets... ;)

I'm thinking that may work, maybe?

sunnysky · Nov 20, 2011, 07:30 PM

Issue on floor is without any flange, it doesn't sit flat with a large foot print.

massplumber2008 · Nov 20, 2011, 08:35 PM

I've heard of plumber's using plaster and shims to level toilet bowls... leveler may work, too.

Otherwise, I would just rip all the lead piping out and run new PVC pipe to the toilet. It may prevent some future flooding is all I'm thinkin'... ;)

sunnysky · Nov 21, 2011, 08:28 AM

Ripping out the pipe is easy, ripping/replacing out the joist is not

sunnysky · Nov 22, 2011, 03:23 PM

Ended up with 1/4' plywood based glued on with subfloor adhesive and sealed with bondo. Then drywall mud to level it , sealed. And caulked around the edge to hold flat..

massplumber2008 · Nov 22, 2011, 05:14 PM

It certainly isn't how a plumber would do things, but sounds like it worked out for you! Good news!

Mark

sunnysky · Nov 22, 2011, 05:24 PM

I guess that's why I'm not a plumber. Factory said to use a std 4" wax ring. As an engineer, I would say the neoprene waxless O-ring approach might be best into a std straight 4" PVC pipe and a double O-ring even better.. Fairly good tight fit around the neck and elastic to movement, unlike the plastic quality of wax. With gaps & air leaks from movement in wax. I think Wax should only be allowed to fill a 0.5" gap max and this setup had no base , seemingly designed for a special neoprene gasket around the neck, but oddly enough not standard. Of course if you have bolts you won't move, but they often rust. The large base boltless design seems very clean simple and inexpensive as a 1 PC to make. Just no std interfaces.

I just made the toilet interface like a std toilet with a base rather than try to plug it with wax . Like trying to fit an over sized donut around a goose's neck.