[martinizing2]

I've said it several times: the burden of proof lies with those making the claims.....YOU.

The fundamental question: What would you prefer: to be comfortable with your beliefs, or to be correct with what you know? I prefer the latter.

Everyone that posts on this site does so for their own reasons. With their own beliefs ,experiences , education, philosophies and personalities determining how they answer the particular question they are answering.

Your "mini bio" states that you "Find false claims and expose them."

I think exposing false claims is a worthwhile and beneficial undertaking and I applaud your effort but feel that objectivity is essential in fact finding.



You are obviously well read and have spent some time looking into the paranormal and present some excellent information and arguments based on what conclusions you have drawn in regard to what you have assimilated on the subject.

And the arguments and information being presented to you are drawn from years of study and experiences some of us have had in our lives.

You stated your experience you thought paranormal at first was shown to be psychologically generated as many are.

I have yet to find any explanation for my experiences . What I experienced , according to reason and logic , is impossible. But it happened and I am still trying to find answers.

You state the burden of proof is with those making the claims , which is true if you are making any claims which I am not (other than there have been many cases studied and documented .)

I believe no one here is promoting or encouraging anyone to believe in the paranormal. Rather we are trying to help people understand what is going on in their lives and to look into all aspects of what could be the cause realizing that only a small percentage will not have an explanation and we choose to call these paranormal .

As with all sciences and studies there are portions that are taken on faith because no concrete evidence can be found that fits the definition of proof. Except mathematics , the only exact science.

And in regards to what we know about the universe around us , the discovery of dark matter is a great example.
The substance that makes up 2/3 of all the matter in the universe we only know is there because of the effects it has on the matter we can detect.

The mathematics prove if it wasn't there the galaxies would not have enough gravity to hold the stars in the positions they are in.
It is also the explanation of why the galaxies are moving away from each other at still accelerating velocities which now is a known fact.
Yet we still have no way of directly detecting dark matter or dark energy whose existence is beyond contestation .

The paranormal , when compared to discoveries like that, seems simple and mundane and only waiting for someone to find the methods to prove or explain what is happening around us everyday in every corner of the world that is classified as paranormal.

I cannot prove my experiences to anyone. Nor do I care to.

I am only looking for answers and trying to help others do the same.

For now there is no black and white or right or wrong in this area. It is a matter of what you choose to believe from what you know and have experienced realizing many of the answers we have yet to discover.

In that light I choose to seek answers in lieu of demanding proof I know as yet does not exist to the satisfaction of scientific definitions.

Not meeting those definitions does not make it any less real to those of us who have experienced paranormal events.

As for documentation , the site you presented I found to be self serving . The author was gathering "facts" 40 to 50 years after the fact and would not name his sources and gave heresay as proof.

This case was also made into a movie. "The Entity" and was studied by an entire team of investigators .

It is all first hand and much more recent and the people were directly involved and alive to confirm it today.
http://http://www.ghosttheory.com/20...f-doris-bither

This is the site of the lead investigator Dr. Barry Taff
http://http://barrytaff.net/author/dr-barry-taff/

And I am comfortable that my beliefs are correct.

I experienced all the proof I need.

[hauntinghelper]

And these are the types of things that proving the paranormal boil down to. The one that is a skeptic or investigator may obtain the most compelling evidence and will always, ALWAYS come against somebody that simply does not believe because THEY were not there to experience it. And then there are those like Martini and myself who have had those demonic experiences firsthand, and believe me when I say I need to further proof for or against the existence of demons because I have seen them and felt them.

No matter what these "investigators" claim, the paranormal cannot be proven or measured using the scientific methods. No matter what data you collect, in the end it cannot be tested over and over. We are dealing with intelligent entities that can manifest in just about anyway a person can imagine. They can appear when they want to and to whom they want to. If two people are in a room, they can manifest so that only one of those people can see or hear or feel them. You can now see why people have such a hard time PROVING their existence, unless of course it is to people who have already experienced them.

I majored in biology in college... science has a beautiful place in our world and beliefs as it explains why the world is the way it is and how if functions. But spirits do not operate by our physical laws and really don't exist in our plane. It is the one subject I am certain we will never fully understand or comprehend to its fullness.