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kim996 · Oct 22, 2011, 05:40 PM

To make a long story short... My grandma (whom lives in Oregon) was recently deemed financially incapacitated by her doctor and POA was given to my mother. My grandparents own apartments worth right around $300,000. And my uncle has con his way into "buying" them from them for $25,000 and had them both sign a "Bargain and sale deed." The lady that notarized this document was my grandparents banker whom knowingly has documents from the doctor and the POA from my mom that states my grandma is incapacitated. Is this legal for her to notarize this document with her knowing that my grandma is not of her right mind to do business anymore? Please help.

ScottGem · Oct 22, 2011, 05:50 PM

Notarization simply means that the identity of the signator was verified. The notary is not responsible for assessing the mental capacity of signator.

However, if it can be proven that the notary was aware the notary was aware she was incapable, then she could be charged with conspiracy to defraud. Your mom should move immediately to have the deeds voided.

kim996 · Oct 22, 2011, 06:03 PM

Yes it can be proved that the notary was aware she was incapacitated. So what is the point of having someone deemed incapacitated if they can still sign documents? Who would be at fault in this situation? The notary? The bank where the docs were signed? The uncle? Thanks!

Fr_Chuck · Oct 22, 2011, 06:03 PM

I do question, why your mom was given POA, not guardianship, normally POA does not mean the other person is not capable of taking care of their own affairs

So your mom never took the doctors statements and go to court to get guardianship ?

But yes, your mom needs to challenge these new deeds in court based on the doctors statements

kim996 · Oct 22, 2011, 06:09 PM

It states in the Trust that if my grandma was ever deemed incapacitated that my mom was automatically awarded guardianship

ScottGem · Oct 22, 2011, 06:11 PM

I'm don't think the bank would be at fault, but anyone who conspired to transfer the property could be charged with conspiracy.

ScottGem · Oct 22, 2011, 06:15 PM

What trust?

Fr_Chuck · Oct 22, 2011, 06:26 PM

I agree what trust ? Were these properties part of the trust ?
The trust agreement would only give guardianship ( I believe) only over the trust, not any property or money not in the trust.

kim996 · Oct 22, 2011, 07:08 PM

They have a trust and the property was in a trust.

ScottGem · Oct 23, 2011, 07:28 AM

This was important info you should have mentioned up front. What are the terms of the trust? Who is the trustee? Who is the beneficiary?

kim996 · Oct 23, 2011, 09:45 PM

A notary/banker at my grandparents' bank in Oregon just notarized documents for a Bargain and Sale deed. This notary knows and is fully aware that my grandma has been deemed incapacitated (the banker took copies of all legal documentation stating this). She has been their banker for at least 8 years.

The biggest thing is that the deed contract stated that apartments (worth roughly $300,000) were being sold for $25,000. My grandparents were taken advantage of, obviously by giving away their investment worth $300,000 for $25,000.

Doesn't the bank/notary banker have an obligation to protect them as her clients? Isn't this against the law for her to notarize these documents when she knows that my grandma did not understand what she was signing?

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2011, 09:51 PM

Who benefited from this sale, from this reduction in price?

J_9 · Oct 23, 2011, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Who benefited from this sale, from this reduction in price?

It doesn't matter. A notary should never notarize for anyone who is not of sound mind or body.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2011, 10:02 PM

I agree, but there may be more than that going on here.

kim996 · Oct 23, 2011, 10:53 PM

The person who benefited was there son who they legally disowned and he was removed from there will and trust and is to get nothing. He has been harassing them to sign over the apartments to him because he feels he is entitled. My grandpa is of sound mind but does not like conflict so he gave in but did not want to sign and stated that to his son. The notary knows that there has been many problems with the son also but notarized the documents anyway. Is there some sort of legal action we can take against the notary and the son?

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2011, 11:08 PM

Do your grandparents have other assets? How many children do they have?

Many lawyers offer a free consultation. It might be worth it to take advantage of this service.

AK lawyer · Oct 24, 2011, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by J_9

It doesn't matter. A notary should never notarize for anyone who is not of sound mind or body.

There is no problem with notarizing for someone of unsound body.

As far as unsound mind is concerned, actually, I can't find such a requirement in ORS Chapter 194 — Notaries Public, so it might be difficult to sue the notary for damages. However, the Oregon Secretaty of State agrees, in this manual. (page 24), that a notary shouldn't notarize the signature of someone of unsound mind.

kim996 · Oct 24, 2011, 09:33 PM

Ok if that is not against the law (but very unethical)for her to notarize a deemed incapacited woman... than isn't it illegal that she did not contact my mom who has POA for my grandma to let her know what was going on? Wouldn't my mom have to sign not my grandma? And like I said she took copies of all of the legal documents that were needed when my grandma was deemed incapacitated.