[proud_mom]

Ok well here's my thing. My fiancŽ has two daughters to previous realationship. We had them for over a yr and the mother decided she wanted them. My fiancŽ is paying child support for both of them. But we live his mother and every time they are here his mother doesn't allow him to do anything with them. She has brain washed the oldest daughter to believe her father doesn't love her. Yet every time he tries to spend time them his mother leaves with them and tells him its none of his business. When in their mothers care he asks for certern things to either be done with them or not to be done with them and the mother says he needs to stay out of it. For over a yr that she has had them she has not transported them anywhere, everything is done by me and my fiancŽ. He's not allowed to disapline them in anyway or have any say over them. Since he has done everything for them in the past 2 and a half yrs and the mother doesn't want to take on any responsibilities he wants to sign his rights off and find a way to not pay child support since the money don't get used on them anyway. She uses it to buy alcohol and pay her child support for another child to another man. Is there anyway he can sign his rights off and not have to still pay child support?

[smoothy]

No... a parent can't sign away their rights... period.

Only a court can take them away.

[proud_mom]

Funny because people do it all the time

[smoothy]

funny because people do it all the time

Really, then you should be able to present plenty of proof of that pretty easy then... bet you can't.

Because No they don't... no parent can sign ANY document that hands over there parental rights.

The only legal way to have parental rights taken away is for a court to do it out of safety for the child... and you have to be a very evil person before they do.

Otherwise you have parental rights and any legal obligations involved unless and until the child is legally adopted from you.

[kcomissiong]

Proudmom, you are wrong here. Do you think anyone would be in jail for failure to pay child support or have their wages garnished for the same reason if you could just sign a paper and make it stop? I don't know where you are getting your info from, but its incorrect.

If your fiancé wants custody of his children, he needs to ask a court for it. If he wants to see his children, ask a court. That is what they are there for, to protect his rights. They will also protect his children's right to be supported by him by not allowing him to terminate his parental rights. Has he done anything legally to change the situation? Asked for visitation or custody? If not, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. She doesn't have to let him do anything without a court order.

On child support: The children's mother is free to use support money as she sees fit. She has paid for their needs if they are living with her, and to do that, she gave up the opportunity to spend that money on something else. She certainly can use child support money of offset what she spent as opposed to spending it directly on the children.

Finally, negative ratings are only for factually incorrect answers. The one you received was completely true, and it is the law.

[proud_mom]

Well I know you are both wrong. My cousins father signed off his rights. And yes there is an agreement that he sees the kids every other weekend.

But as far as no its not possible sign your rights off I know you can. I just want to know if he can get out of child support as well. And another thing your wrong about is the fact that the money can be used for anything. Its to be used for the well being of the child/children that the money is is for. Not alcohol or another child, I do know some things that obviously the two of you don't

[smoothy]

well i know you are both wrong. my cousins father signed off his rights. and yes there is an agreement that he sees the kids every other weekend.

but as far as no its not possible sign your rights off i know you can. i just wanna know if he can get out of child support as well. and another thing your wrong about is the fact that the money can be used for anything. its to be used for the well being of the child/children that the money is is for. not alcohol or another child, i do know some things that obviously the two of you dont

Really... care to quote any case law to back this up? Seriously ANY case law... and what federal form number would these forms be as well. Seriously, prove that claim then. We are anxiously waiting. It will be a revelation to everyone on this site that's been through this before. Either as a parent or a Lawyer in court.

What YOU just claimed isn't possible... it isn't legal, and it doesn't happen.

You can NOT sign over kids like an old car... you can't simple take someone's kids like buying an old car... And parental rights are like holding the title to a car.

And you are also totally clueless about what child support can be used for. Fathers paying support complain about this ever day... and mothers waste it on things other than the kids every day... and they still get away with it. Is it right? Nope, but legally its allowed. Being right, and being legal are not the same.

You are so completely wrong on everything you said its not even funny.

He CAN'T get out of paying support any more than he can hand over his rights with any piece of paper.

No matter what he or you type up, and pretend to think is a legal document, its about as worthless as a used wad of toilet paper in court, or in your defense when they authorities arrest you for trying to sell a child.

YOU can't give a kid up just like that, HE can't give a kid up just like that...

What he CAN do is put it up for adoption... only AFTER the adoption process takes place... THROUGH THE COURTS... will his rights end. And ONLY then will his support obligations end.

Without a formal legal adoption process, the ONLY way they can or will ever be terminated is by court order... and you have to be a truly evil person before the court will do it... there are plenty of dumb parents. Truly stupid ones... but they don't have kids taken away. Only the really evil ones that abuse and seriously endanger their lives. And STILL , only the COURT has the ability to do it.

Having CPS take the kids away from you doesn't terminate your rights or obligations... you remain the legal parent. All it just proves is you aren't capable of being trusted around kids. The state takes custody of them, (with the courts permission). If you ever prove you can properly care for them you can get them back. Custody has nothing to do with Parental rights... two VERY different things. And YOU were arguing about Parental rights being given up.

You would almost have to roast and eat one of them before the court would take the other away from you, or relieve you of your child support obligations. And even being in prison doesn't relieve you of those obligations.

And remember YOU have been arguing parental Rights... so WE are right and it you that's completely wrong. So do you want to admit it? And admit that maybe you have been arguing about the wrong thing all along. You can't even hand over custody without the courts, and custody still doesn't relieve the parents of any financial obligations.

Custody isn't adoption, Custody doesn't change support obligations... only Adoption will do that. And a Court has intimate involvement on any of those. NOTHING gets done legally without a court. Not custody orders, NOT support orders, NOT adoptions, and most certainly ANYTHING to do with parental rights.

[Janjan608]

Sorry to say smoothy, she's right. You CAN voluntarily ask for your parental rights to be terminated. But it is highly unlikely. In most cases is (as you said) for adoption or to remove the child from an unhealthy and harmful environment, and it doesn't always mean you will stop your financial obligations. But in some RARE cases, voluntarily terminating your rights for a "GOOD CAUSE" is possible, and if the other (custodial) parent agrees (and only if she/he agrees) can the financial obligations be terminated (if not the case of adoption that is).

It doesn't happen "just because the custodial parent won't let me do anything with my children" or "because she uses the money for her and not the kids", it happens on extreme and rare cases. But is it possible? Yes. Is it more likely for adoption? Yes, but it possible for a parent to sign over his/her rights and a custodial parent still have the child. BUT usually, the financial obligations are STILL there. You're just giving up your right to make any decisions about your kid (religion, health, school, etc).

And any parent who would even DARE think about getting rid of their rights like that... giving up on their children like that... should be ashamed. She has the right to use the money for whatever she pleases, unless it is something illegal like drugs or something to those extremes.

Your fiancé should be HAPPY that his children are doing so good financially that his ex is capable of treating herself. I'm one to believe that child support shouldn't only be for children. If they have everything and she has no bills, why can't she treat herself? Paying child support doesn't compare at all to the daily grind of caring for his children.

If he wants RIGHTS over his children (and she IS violating those rights!) tell him to go to the COURT. That's what it's there for. The court WANTS the children to have a relationship with the non-custodial parent, that's why visitation is there. Unless of course the non-custodial parent is harmful towards the children. So have your fiancé complain about it to the court, instead of trying to get out of his responsibilities simply because the custodial parent uses the money for something he doesn't approve of.

Info from this website: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/mr-rights.html

A simple research in Google shows plenty more websites.

[ScottGem]

Sorry to say smoothy, she's right. You CAN voluntarily ask for your parental rights to be terminated.

Just to clarify this, Anyone can ask to have their rights terminated. But that ONLY a court can actually order the termination. The practical fact is that courts are very reluctant to grant TPRs and will never do so just to allow a parent out of paying support. Generally they will only do so to clear the way for an adoption or if the parent represents a danger to the child.

well i know you are both wrong. my cousins father signed off his rights. and yes there is an agreement that he sees the kids every other weekend.

but as far as no its not possible sign your rights off i know you can. i just wanna know if he can get out of child support as well. and another thing your wrong about is the fact that the money can be used for anything. its to be used for the well being of the child/children that the money is is for. not alcohol or another child, i do know some things that obviously the two of you dont

I'm sorry but you are wrong here. You don't detail the circumstances for your cousin's situation. But if the father still has rights to see the children, then his rights were not terminated. I suspect you have either been misinformed or misunderstand what happened in that situation.

I don't know what you think you know, but we have been answering such questions for years and you are wrong in just about everything. I do agree that child support is to be used for the benefit of the children. But you can't know what she is using the funds for. As long as the children are being cared for, it doesn't matter what ELSE she spends money on. Can you prove that the money paid by your fiancée is actually going for something else? Do you have a specific accounting of every penny that goes into her household and what its spent on?

But, as I said above, he will not be allowed to relinquish his rights just to get out of paying support. If you want to waste your money hiring an attorney to try and get that you will see who is right. BTW,
ANY question on law needs to include your general locale as laws vary by area.

[proud_mom]

Problem is the childrean aren't being cared for. Even though she receives child support she still calls him to get buy things for the kids that should have been baught with that money. She send her kids with her friends over night and don't even buy daipers for them so they have what they need over need while in the care of someone else. She has her license but also refuses to take them to docter or anywhere else they might need to go. She calls here complaining that my fiancé needs to stay home from work so he can watch them and when he does she complains he needs to be at work so she can receive her money. It's a lossing situation with her.

[proud_mom]

As for the situation with my coiusins father, he signed his rights off because his son has muscular dystrophy and he didn't want that reponsibilty. Along with that child support was dropped which my cousins mother did not know until she received a letter in the mail. I'm not sure how it was done but it was.

I'm not sure how to get the documents that state you can sign off your rights. But somehow in PA it is possible.

[ScottGem]

problem is the childrean arent being cared for. even though she receives child support she still calls him to get buy things for the kids that should have been baught with that money. she send her kids with her friends over night and dont even buy daipers for them so they have what they need over need while in the care of someone else. she has her liscence but also refuses to take them to docter or anywhere else they might need to go. she calls here complaining that my fiance needs to stay home from work so he can watch them and when he does she complains he needs to be at work so she can receive her money. its a lossing situation with her.

That's a different issue. If you can prove that the children are not being properly cared for, then you bring that proof to court and ask that custody be changed.

But I agree with Jan, abandoning the children is wrong and its just not going to happen.

[ScottGem]

as for the situation with my coiusins father, he signed his rights off because his son has muscular dystrophy and he didnt want that reponsibilty. along with that child support was dropped which my cousins mother did not know until she received a letter in the mail. im not sure how it was done but it was.

And who told you about this? Frankly, I don't believe it. I can't believe any court anywhere would let a father out of the responsibility of paying support and still give him visitation.

im not sure how to get the documents that state you can sign off your rights. but somehow in PA it is possible.

I've checked PA law I don't see any provision that would allow a father to relinquish rights just because they don't want to pay support. There are no documents. He would have to get an attorney to file a petition and any reputable attorney would tell him not to waste his time and money.

[GV70]

Is there anyway he can sign his rights off and not have to still pay child support?

No way! ;););)