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frazwood · Jul 20, 2011, 12:40 PM

I bought a property last year in central Minnesota (Crow Wing County). When I bought the property, I also bought title insurance, which included a plot map showing the approximate locations of the property lines, relative to a detached garage and the house.

A year later, the City has decided to put a fence along the property line (my property borders a city-leased property). According the City's surveyors (I am not entirely certain that they were accurate), the property lines are nowhere near where I originally thought they were. Basically, my property is a 100 ft x 200 ft rectangle... the city is now claiming that it is located about 45 feet further east than previously assumed. This affects me and at least two other neighbors. The specific problem is that:
1. About half of my garage is not actually located on my property. It's a newer garage (< 5 years old) and it's very nice (the nicest part of the property, in fact)
2. The house itself is likely within a foot or two of the property line.
3. I apparently own my next-door neighbor's driveway in its entirety.

So, I have a few questions... basically, I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I need to hire a lawyer (money is tight, as it is for a lot of people).

Can the city potentially force me to remove my garage?
Can I get relief via title insurance, since the property is clearly different than what I thought that I was buying (and what was listed in my title insurance policy)?
Could I conceivably force my neighbor to stop using his driveway, which is now theoretically on my property?

I've heard (from someone other than a lawyer) that in many rural areas like this... that the "official" property lines were never properly surveyed, so that there is some sort of legal recognition that the long-assumed property lines. In this case, the property lines have been assumed for at least a decade, if not more.

LisaB4657 · Jul 20, 2011, 12:49 PM

You don't need to retain an attorney. You bought a title insurance policy. This is EXACTLY what it was for.

Take out your policy, find the contact information for making a claim, call them AND send them a letter by certified mail. (Make sure you keep a copy.) Tell them exactly what you've told us and let them get started.

Good luck!

AK lawyer · Jul 20, 2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by frazwood

I bought a property last year in central Minnesota (crow wing county). When I bought the property, I also bought title insurance, which included a plat map showing the approximate locations of the property lines, relative to a detached garage and the house.
...
Can I get relief via title insurance, since the property is clearly different than what I thought that I was buying (and what was listed in my title insurance policy)?
...

Read the fine print in the policy. The sketch attached to the title insuarance policy is not a survey. Therefore it may say something like "for illustrative purposes only. Map is not to be relied on to establish the exact property lines. ..." etc.

Originally Posted by frazwood

...
Can the city potentially force me to remove my garage?
...
I've heard (from someone other than a lawyer) that in many rural areas like this... that the "official" property lines were never properly surveyed, so that there is some sort of legal recognition that the long-assumed property lines. In this case, the property lines have been assumed for at least a decade, if not more.

The normal adverse possession rules don't apply against the city. So the "legal recognition [regarding] the long-assumed property lines" probably won't help you in your case.

So, yes, if the city is correct in it's belief as to where the property lines are, you could be forced to remove the garage.

Originally Posted by frazwood

...
Could I conceivably force my neighbor to stop using his driveway, which is now theoretically on my property?
...

Possibly, depending on what the adverse possession period is in your jurisdiction and on how long your neighbor "possessed" the driveway under a claim of right.

Originally Posted by LisaB4657

You don't need to retain an attorney. You bought a title insurance policy. This is EXACTLY what it was for.
...

And what is OP going to ask for? The purchase price?

OP is going to need an attorney to find exactly what the options are. But the title company may be required to pay for such an attorney.

frazwood · Jul 20, 2011, 02:48 PM

Read the fine print in the policy. The sketch attached to the title insuarance policy is not a survey. Therefore it may say something like "for illustrative purposes only. Map is not to be relied on to establish the exact property lines. ..." etc.

In this case, the sketch is off by about 50 feet -- it's nowhere close to exact. The issue is not so much precisely where the property lines are (although admittedly, I'm not excited to own my neighbor's driveway)...

The main issue is the fact that my garage (which was a substantial portion of the property's value) isn't on the property. Ergo, I paid way more for the property than it was worth if I have to remove the garage... I'm hoping that is why I can get relief from my title insurance.

frazwood · Jul 20, 2011, 02:58 PM

The normal adverse possession rules don't apply against the city. So the "legal recognition [regarding] the long-assumed property lines" probably won't help you in your case.

So, yes, if the city is correct in it's belief as to where the property lines are, you could be forced to remove the garage.

A have a question and a comment... and a question from the comment.

Could my neighbor (whose driveway I own!) claim the adverse possession to keep his driveway on one side, while the city enforces my property line on the other side? Effectively, this would mean that the 100 foot wide property that I bought... gets shrunk to only about 55 feet!

I left this detail out previously... because, honestly, I'm confused by this. The ownership of the adjacent property is not entirely clear. The property is actually tax-forfeit property that meanders around for awhile -- it's actually 7 acres in size or so. Because it's tax-forfeit property, it is technically owned by the County. The County and City have an agreement (there is a "Special Use Deed"... I have a copy of it) that specifically allows the City to use the property for a drainfield (i.e. from a septic system) and for a baseball field. Neither the drainfield or the baseball field are within 200 feet of my property. The City claims this "Special Use Deed" is the same as a lease; the County clerks claim that it is not a lease.

Questions: (1) Is a special use deed approximately a lease? And (2) how complicated would it be to buy a portion of this large property so that I own the land underneath my garage? (I've tried to get a hold of someone at the County who can answer this, but I've been unsuccessful so far).

LisaB4657 · Jul 20, 2011, 03:09 PM

None of the questions you've asked can be answered here or anywhere else until you know exactly where your property lines are located and to what extent they are insured. That's why the first thing you have to do is file a claim with your title insurance company.

Once the claim is filed and the title company gives its determination you can then decide if you wish to retain an attorney and proceed with any actions. Sure, you can retain an attorney now but you'll just be paying for the attorney's time to contact your title insurance company and file a claim on your behalf. Because your attorney is not going to know what options are available until the title company has made a determination on the status of the title.

LisaB4657 · Jul 20, 2011, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

And what is OP going to ask for? The purchase price?

No, the OP should be asking for a determination of where the property lines are, what exactly is insured and what action the title company will take to defend the title.

OP is going to need an attorney to find exactly what the options are. But the title company may be required to pay for such an attorney.

Possibly. But there's no point in retaining one now and paying them to do exactly the same thing the OP can do.

frazwood · Jul 20, 2011, 03:12 PM

And what is OP going to ask for? The purchase price?

OP is going to need an attorney to find exactly what the options are. But the title company may be required to pay for such an attorney.

I know you meant these as rhetorical questions, but could you help answer them? What do I ask for? How do I get the title company to pay for such an attorney?

ScottGem · Jul 20, 2011, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by frazwood

I know you meant these as rhetorical questions, but could you help answer them? What do I ask for? How do I get the title company to pay for such an attorney?

The first thing you ask for is for the title company to pay for a new survey to determine where the property lines are. You cannot proceed until you do that. Once you have your own survey, then you can seek reimbursement for overpaying, possibly the costs of getting the property on the other side acknowledged to be yours, maybe the costs of moving the garage if it has to be moved..

But first the survey.

LisaB4657 · Jul 20, 2011, 04:22 PM

Scott, the title company is not going to pay for a survey. They have no obligation to do so. It's the buyer/owner's obligation. It would be a great idea for the OP to get a survey but not until the title company issues an opinion on where the property lines should be located based on the prior deeds and legal descriptions.

ScottGem · Jul 20, 2011, 04:27 PM

Oic

Fr_Chuck · Jul 20, 2011, 07:02 PM

You need to hire and get your own survey done, and perhaps get with the owners of the next couple properties to do this and hire an attorney together.

frazwood · Jul 21, 2011, 02:02 PM

I've talked to the folks at the County, who are responsible for keep the records for the property lines. The survey has been verified as correct. I am in the process of filing the title insurance claim.

frazwood · Jul 21, 2011, 02:03 PM

Thanks. I'm in the process of filing the Title Insurance claim.

twinkiedooter · Jul 21, 2011, 08:22 PM

LisaB knows her stuff as she is a real estate attorney. Please take her advice. I've read her answers and once you purchase title insurance you've gotten at least some kind of guarantee that the property's boundaries were investigated and found to be correct and match the survey done on the property. If the city is now coming and saying that they own most of your property, what's wrong with that picture? Plenty.

LisaB4657 · Jul 21, 2011, 10:21 PM

Thanks, Twinkie!

frazwood · Jul 22, 2011, 05:00 AM

No worries twinkie, I took Lisa's advice.

frazwood · Jul 22, 2011, 05:22 AM

A couple of days ago, I asked a question about my garage, which I recently learned was only about 75% on my property, following a survey of the property https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/real-e...88528-new.html. I was advised to file a title insurance claim.

Not knowing how to file a Title Insurance Claim, I called my real estate agent, who recommended that I call the Title Company that handled that sale/purchase of the property. I talked to owner of the Title Company, who asked me numerous questions... and then he said that he'd do some investigating and get back to me.

Last night, he called back (I didn't answer) but he left a voice mail. On the voice mail, he said something to the effect of "I don't know if you read the policy carefully, but it doesn't cover issues that arise when a proper survey is done."

This is a complete lie. I know this because I HAVE read the policy.

Under Item 2(c) under COVERED RISKS, my policy states: "Any encroachment, encumbrance, violation, variation, or adverse circumstance affecting the Title that would be disclosed by an accurate and complete survey of the Land. The term "encroachment" includes encroachments of existing improvements located on the Land onto adjoining land, and encroachments onto the Land of existing improvements located on adjoining land."

This is precisely my situation. I have an improvement (my garage) encroaching an adjacent property. Also, my neighbor's driveway is also encroaching on my property.

So, a few questions:

Why would the owner of the Title Company (who is not affiliated with the Title Insurance Company) lie to me like that? That is, what is his financial stake or other benefit in preventing me from filing a claim?

Second, if this continues to be difficult and I eventually hire a lawyer, is the owner of the Title Company culpable for the lie that he told me? I have digital voice mail and I have a copy of it on my hard drive.

ebaines · Jul 22, 2011, 05:53 AM

Please clarify - did you have a survey done BEFORE you bought the property? And does that original survey show your garage encroaching on your neighbor's property? Does it show your neighbor's driveway encroaching on your property?

Don't get too hyped up about the title company owner's voice mail. Calmly call him back and ask him to explain. Be calm, be professional. He may have simply left out the word "not" in his voice mail message, as in "it doesn't cover issues that arise when a proper survey isn't done." But see what he says.

frazwood · Jul 22, 2011, 07:29 AM

I bought the property April 2010. There was no knowledge (by me) of either encroachment until January 2011, when a survey was performed by the City because they wanted to install a fence. The survey was required because there was a disagreement regarding the location of the property lines (I showed the Plat Drawing that was included in my title insurance policy; it is HORRIBLY wrong). In hindsight, the County has a publicly-available GIS map that accurately shows the property lines, including the fact that my garage encroaches the City's property and my neighbor's driveway encroaches my property.

This is not a simple mistake -- the title company owner's voice mail is 3 minutes in length and he explains in detail why my Title Insurance Policy does not cover these encroachments.

For now, I am going to void the Title Company (why bother dealing with a liar?) and contact the Title Insurance company directly.