[excon]

Hello:

Take a look on your corner. Any predators hang out there? Hey look, you got a pot dealer in front of the convenience store right next to the payday loan store. Yeah, you got a predator on your corner – you got TWO of 'em, and neither one is selling pot.

The c-store sells cigarettes. A poison that kills 450,000 people every year in this country. Ahh, you say - they're not a predator – what they sell is legal. Bunk, I say! It's a distinction without a difference. Pot doesn't kill anybody.

The payday loan store is even worse. They smile and give you a payday loan at over 300% interest. When you can't pay it back next week, they'll smile and give you another one (with penalties and interest tacked on) - until you get hooked and then they clean you out. We put lots of these bloodsuckers on the streets just outside our military bases. Is that how Bush supports the troops?

It IS kind of funny when you look at your corner. The guy standing on the street is the ONLY ONE breaking the law. Talk about going through the looking glass!

excon

[MARK M]

Pot has actually been linked to mental illness but ciggerettes should be banned as well but they make far too much money for the goverments for them to ban them

[shygrneyzs]

Pot being linked to mental illness - is that like bacon being linked to cancer and you have to consume such massive quantities in order for the correlation to be correct? Or do you have to be stoned every day, all day, for so many years?

I wholeheartedly agree on the payday loan stores. I cannot see how in the world they got permission to crop up like flies. There is one store for every six blocks here and they thrive. People can even have five or six payday loans out at one time (although the current state legistature is working to correct that). Nothing like getting stuck in the tar pits. No hope of ever getting out. But, as it could be said, that is the free enterprise system. Just sad for the people who get caught up in that web.

[phillysteakandcheese]

I always found the "pot people" some of the easiest to deal with - None of them ever took a swipe at me, spit on me, or went kicking and screaming... Drunks stumbling out of the bar were often much worse. They're the one's that want to fight, or at least make a display to talk tough to the "mall cop".

[PunkRockHer]

Wow, good observation. Isn't it funny how a plant derived from earth is the crime and shady business tactics aren't. The selling of cigs could be labeled as manslaughter and the payday loans as loan sharking. Some lasws just absolutley befuddle me.

[JoeCanada76]

A plant created by God. That was put there for human use, in my opinion. It should not be a crime at all.

Cigs on the other hand. Yes, manslaughter. Payday loans should be considered criminal. Very good observation.

Joe

[tomder55]

I have no idea what the long term medical effects would be nationwide of pot was legal . I exoect since it shares many of the same canceous characteristics and much more tar that the effects on users would be about the same.

I think in general loansharking and unusually high usary should not be legal ,and that includes bank interest charges on credit cards . But without those pay day places people who are unable to get loans at lower rates will get fewer or no loans at all. Yes the practice is exploitive... but those involved enter into the transaction freely .If it were me ;given the choice between paying a higher interest rate and bouncing a check or paying an even more exploitive late fee,I would opt for the higher interest loan.(For each $100 advanced from a pay day store, customers pay a typical fee of $15. On average, bounced check fees are $27.04, credit card late fees are $32.61 and merchant-returned check fees are $26.64.)

[excon]

Hello tom:

There are 25 million pot smokers in this country. If pot killed or caused cancer, I think we'd know about it by now. But, keep looking. Maybe you'll find some cancer causing stuff hiding under the WMD's. Bwa, ha ha ha.

Actually, pot CURES some cancer!!

Furthermore, embodied in your answer, is the assumption that MORE people would be smoking pot IF it was legal. I don't make that assumption. Do you know anybody just waiting to try pot WHEN it becomes legal?? No, you don't, tom. Because all the people who have a propensity to smoke pot, ARE already smoking pot.

I don't disagree about the free market at work, though... But, what about the pot market?? That's a free market at work too. Why should those guys go to jail?

excon

[JoeCanada76]

tomder55,

As far as tobacco is concerned, what is it laced with. Who adds 5,000 or more chemicals to it?

Cigs are created by man, not by the earth.


Joe

[tomder55]

Jesushelper76 I see debate on this board is reduced to silly name calling .

Tobacco is regulated . Pot is not . I think there is enough proof of damage to the consumer to warrant BOTH being banned .

Is there some kind of protocol I am not familiar with on this site ? What is so nefarious about disagreeing with someone's posting ?

[Curlyben]

Tomder, have a look at This Thread for a better understanding of what is expected of the comments feature.

[JoeCanada76]

Jesushelper76 I see debate on this board is reduced to silly name calling .

Tobacco is regulated . Pot is not . I think there is enough proof of damage to the consumer to warrant BOTH being banned .

Is there some kind of protocol I am not familiar with on this site ? What is so nefarious about disagreeing with someone's posting ?

Tobacco is regulated, but yet it is laced with over 5000 chemicals. The government is out to kill the very people that support them and vote them in office.
As far as pot is concerned it is not laced with chemicals is natural and there are so many facts to back up its medical importance.

Epilepsy, glucoma (Eye Problems), Chronic pain, etc...

For me personally and for many other people. Especially with chronic pain instead of loading up on morphine and codiene and oxycontin. Which do you think is the healthiest choice with the least side effects.

For me, I do not smoke anything but I agree that pot is harmless, compared to alcohol, compared to cigs, compared to any other drug, and even most drugs that are approved by the government.

Joe

[tomder55]

Regulated or not it is alot more dangerous and way more addicting

Having smoked both I can tell you that I was perfectly able to operate a machine /or a car while smoking cigarettes . If I got behind the wheel hours after smoking pot I was a danger to everyone else if not only myself. I was not able to function on the job so my employer did not get a fair days work for a days pay. Myself respect hit an all time low. Yes when I quit pot physically it was easier but the craving to smoke a joint lasted much longer . I also had to quit the social circle I was in . They drifted steadily towards more dangerous drugs. Where I used to smell pot wafting in their living rooms I suddendly strated smelling the reagents used for free basing coke. I would've been drawn into that world . Thank God and my wife ;they saved me from that madness.

Do you know what chemicals were used to grow the pot you smoke ? No of course you don't unless you grow it yourself. Are there controls on the growing and harvesting and manufacturing of tobacco . There sure are . Are there the same for pot ? No .
Tobacco is regulated just like any other agricultural product. While I think the product is bad for our health without any chemicals, dreaming up fictitious goblins is not productive. Do you really think that tobacco companies are in the business to kill their customers ?

I can name you hundreds of NATURAL PLANTS that it would be deadly to ingest . It is really a naïve argument to say that because it is natural there are no dangerous chemicals and toxins in it. Natural tobacco is a very complex plant with a number of toxic properties

[PunkRockHer]

Tom,

We obviously have two totally different outlooks on marijuana, you don't see me calling you naïve or telling you that your opinion is totally fictitious and made up of goblins. I would appreciate a little more fact of opinion and a little less in the derrogatory comments area. Do you convey everything you believe in in that kind of manner?

As you obviously have an addictive personality, marijuana is not for you. I suspect you would be addicted to about any drug you touch and therefor are more susceptible to the ill effects of abuse. The original point of the question was more of a pondering of ideas and not an end all tell all you are right I am wrong question.

As you come from an addiction side of the use of marijuana, I come from the medicinal side of use of marijuana. I know first hand it is something that helps my mother with pain from Multiple Sclerosis. She takes a couple hits at night so she can lay down comfortably and sleep. She doesn't sit around smoking it all day and abuse it. So just because you abused it doesn't mean everyone abuses it and just because you don't like it doesn't mean everybody doesn't have to like. Great thing about America!

Selling Cigs and High Interest Money Loans are just as predatory as that guy selling pot on a corner if not more. Least with a bag of weed you are getting a fair value where as High Interest Money loans take advantage of the needy and the tax on cigs cost more than the pack themselves. In America it is called a sin tax.. hmmm wonder why that is? That was my original opinion and I stand by it. The ins and outs on the use of marijuana is a totally different topic and maybe you should post a question about it.

[phillysteakandcheese]

Do you really think that tobacco companies are in the business to kill their customers ?

Yes, quite clearly they are.

Smokers are paying tobacco companies for poison. Smokers and tobacco companies already know that consuming these poisons will kill them, which is why spiking there product with nicotine is so important to keeping people hooked for years.

Heath Canada's Tobacco site:
Tobacco - Main page

[inthebox]

Hello:

Take a look on your corner. Any predators hang out there? Hey look, you got a pot dealer in front of the convenience store right next to the payday loan store. Yeah, you got a predator on your corner – you got TWO of ‘em, and neither one is selling pot.

The c-store sells cigarettes. A poison that kills 450,000 people every year in this country. Ahh, you say - they’re not a predator – what they sell is legal. Bunk, I say! It’s a distinction without a difference. Pot doesn’t kill anybody.

The payday loan store is even worse. They smile and give you a payday loan at over 300% interest. When you can't pay it back next week, they'll smile and give you another one (with penalties and interest tacked on) - until you get hooked and then they clean you out. We put lots of these bloodsuckers on the streets just outside our military bases. Is that how Bush supports the troops?

It IS kinda funny when you look at your corner. The guy standing on the street is the ONLY ONE breaking the law. Talk about going through the looking glass!

excon

I thought you were libertarian?

Every one has a choice.

It is widely known cigarrette smoking is unhealthy.
In the US , pot is illegal.
I have not used one of these payday loan stores so I'm not sure if everything is in writing, but if it is then one has to read it and nderstand what they're getting into.


And medically speaking, pot is not a first line choice for glaucoma, nausea, or pain.
Even legal, controlled substance, can be abused.


Frankly I think the most dangerous predators are on the internet.


Grace and Peace

[speechlesstx]

This is all actually quite amusing. We have at least a couple of people defending the use of a plant "created by God" and "derived from the earth" while railing against another plant "created by God and "derived from the earth." And why? "Big tobacco" is why, they're intentionally killing off their customers, yet I suppose if marijuana becomes legal there's no fear of "big pot" corporations doing the same dastardly deeds. And doesn't it strike anyone as odd to promote freedom for one while campaigning against the other which is already legal?

If you want to legalize pot, whatever - but not the "medical marijuana" farce that exists in San Francisco. You do know of course that it would be the next favorite thing to attach excessive taxes to, and the "no smoking" nazis will make darn sure you don't smoke it in public - maybe even in your own home. It's interesting that in the "medical marijuana" city of San Francisco they've considered just such a ban on smoking in your home. I'm not sure if that would include "medical marijuana" but I'm guessing it wouldn't. So much for protecting those with asthma and allergies to smoke.

Omaha, Nebraska authorities went so far as to urge people to call 911 if they see a smoking infraction. So you anti-smoking nazis should be careful what you wish for - all that weight you gained when you quit smoking will soon be criminal as well - dial 911 if you see someone eating fried chicken. I'm sure if these people had their way C-stores would be banned anyway, what with all those cokes, candy bars, cigarettes and day old hot dogs they sell.

And lest I forget, those payday loan folks are scum and there oughta be a law against that and any other extreme interest leeches, along with many used car dealers. Although it might seem like a good idea you can't really outlaw stupidity, whether it be smokers, drinkers or people that borrow money at 300 percent interest rates.

[ETWolverine]

The c-store sells cigarettes. A poison that kills 450,000 people every year in this country. Ahh, you say - they’re not a predator – what they sell is legal. Bunk, I say! It’s a distinction without a difference. Pot doesn’t kill anybody.

I was with you, right up until the last sentence of that paragraph. As soon as you say that pot doesn't kill anybody, you are making a statement that is an absolute. And that absolute statement is absolutely untrue.

Canabis has a direct effect on heart rate, increasing it by as much as 20-30 beats per minute. For someone with a history of cardiac arhythmia or other cardiac problems, that can (and has been) fatal. One study shows that a user's risk for heart attack in the first hour after marajuana use is four times greater than their usual risk. Furthermore, it increases risk of stroke. Coming off the high is often accompanied by depression, which can cause suicide. Marajuana also effects the hyppocampus (memory center of the brain) and affects balance, coordination and motor skills. High doses of canabis can cause toxic psychosis, hallucination, depersonalization, and other psychological effects that can have serious and fatal consequences. Marajuana has been linked to lung infections and resperatory disorders including lung cancer and cancer of the resperatory tract. Cancer of the head and neck have also been linked to marajuana use. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. THC has been linked to immune system disorders.

Bottom line, marajuana use does kill. The question is whether that is enough of a reason to continue to keep it illegal. I don't think so. I personally believe that as long as the public is aware of the risks, the choice should be theirs. BUT, I'm not willing to break the law just because I disagree with it.

The payday loan store is even worse. They smile and give you a payday loan at over 300% interest. When you can't pay it back next week, they'll smile and give you another one (with penalties and interest tacked on) - until you get hooked and then they clean you out. We put lots of these bloodsuckers on the streets just outside our military bases. Is that how Bush supports the troops?

According to my understanding of the law (and my understanding is pretty good, since this is my industry) interest rates of 300% would definitely constitute usury and are illegal. I think that anything over 26% would be usury in all 50 states. The actual interest rate that constitutes usury vary from state to state, but 300% is definitely above the threshold for all states. Additionally, the law takes fees into consideration as well and tacks them on to the interest. So if a bank is charging a high interest rate and high fees, they may be guilty of usury on a combined basis even if the rate alon or the fees alone are not usury. There's a lot of case law to support this, and the courts tend to be pretty harsh on the lenders.

As for lending to people who are "hooked" on loans, there is a concept in finance law called "lender liability" which means that if a lender knowingly lends money to someone who they know is incapable of paying back that loan, and the borrower defaults on the loan, the lender is liable will be unable to collect. This concept protects against the type of predatory lending practices you are talking about.

If there are lenders getting away with usury or lender liability issues, the state (not the Federal government since it is the state that regulates lending regulations) has a responsibility to go after those lenders. If they are not, someone at the state level isn't doing their job.

Interesting how you bring marajuana, cigarrette smoking and predatory lending all to one conclusion: It's all Bush's fault. You don't explain HOW its Bush's fault, you just conclude that it is. In other words, it's a typical excon post.

Elliot