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rtw_travel · Mar 19, 2011, 08:30 AM

we've bought a new house that we're going to demolish in a few weeks. As part of the demolition permit, the city will come to turn the water off at the outside shutoff value at the property line. We've had to leave a large deposit with the city in case the valve is stuck so they can dig down and turn it off.

I've tried the valve, and it is stuck. I bet it hasn't been operated in decades. Darn. I couldn't try very hard because I don't have the special 5 sided socket to turn it, but my closest multi point socket indicates that it is seized. Perhaps frozen because the ground is frozen?

I know the actual valve is about 10' deep. Anything I can do so the it might actually work when the city shows up? Is it worth trying to dig down below the frost line. Would heating the valve stem help? Tapping it?

Thanks in advance.

massplumber2008 · Mar 19, 2011, 09:06 AM

Hi RTW...

I got to tell you, from experience, that you are best NOT to mess with the curb stop in any way.

Here, for example, say you mess with it and it breaks... now you have real issues and are responsible for everything including the EMERGENCY costs associated with fixing it, right? If instead you wait, these guys are very experienced on working with these things and will have the best tool that allows for a great bite and proper leverage to open/close the valve. The experience factor really matters most here, and if you get the right guys that will spend a few minutes I bet they'll get this fixed for you.

If nothing else, if things do go bad at least things will be scheduled in and you won't get hit with any emergency charges... right? *UGH*!

Care to discuss more? Let us know, OK?

Mark

rtw_travel · Mar 19, 2011, 10:00 AM

but if I promise not to touch the value, what can I do to make it easier for the city to operate it? Dig through the frost? Heat the stem?

ma0641 · Mar 19, 2011, 10:10 AM

Gee, I thought that's what you pay a water bill for. Let them do it all and it will keep you off the hook for anything that you do. Mark is right.

rtw_travel · Mar 19, 2011, 10:40 AM

Let me try this again.

We've left a $3500 deposit with the city in case they can't operate the valve, so they can dig down and fix it. We get this money back if the valve works.

I know the valve is seized or frozen now - so I'm just trying to increase the likelihood of the city getting it to work when they show up. Make sense?

massplumber2008 · Mar 19, 2011, 02:25 PM

No need to explain again, RTW as you were perfectly clear the first time... ;)

Here, the fact is that the valve may appear frozen, but it may not really be frozen. The tool that the water departments use fits perfectly and has a 3-4 foot lever arm for turning the curb stop off... sometimes even necessary to get 2 men on the tool. In Boston, for example, we have curb stops that are 100 years old, and sure they can be tough, but these guys deal with them daily. If you give them a chance they may simply turn the valve off for you... no cost associated here, right?

If they fail to shut the valve off then I am sure you can explore options after the fact if you think it will save you some money.

The way I see it, I just don't see the point in you spending time/effort and money that may not need to be spent. Again, understanding your concerns (lots of money! ), I have to tell you to give these guys a shot at it... may surprise you.

I hope that helped and I would love to know the outcome of this when you are all done, OK? I'll cross my fingers for you!

And finally, to really drive it home, I don't see that heating or exposing anything will help....in most cases, the right tool, proper leverage and maybe two big burly guys will!

Good luck here...

Mark

mygirlsdad77 · Mar 19, 2011, 04:21 PM

Mark said it all. Let these guys do their job, usually they are pretty darn good at it, and have the correct tools for it. Trust me, this won't be their first rodeo. If you get a chance, watch them when they get there. Now, Im sure you won't be too happy if you do any damage that leads to loss of that big deposit, only to find it could have been avoided. Don't put your own tools on it, as it may strip the head, then your up the crick.

Im with Mark on this one, wishing you the best of luck, and curious to here how everything work out. Good luck and take care.

rtw_travel · Mar 19, 2011, 05:53 PM

Thanks - they show up next Friday - I'll post back after.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 19, 2011, 05:56 PM

Yes, the workers coming out will not want to have to dig it up. But they will have a tool, as noted that often And yes, they often have two guys trying to move it. And they may heat it prior to trying, but only then.

While I know you don't want to have to spend extra money, let them do it, much better they break it, then water shooting out of the ground when you break it.

rtw_travel · Mar 25, 2011, 12:16 PM

After a sharp turn to unfreeze it, it closed without a problem. The ground is frozen solid and we have a foot of snow still. Even the city worker was surprised and said they hardly ever close that easily.

Anyway, we're away to the races. This was the first physical work in our construction: gas comes out today, power next week and demolition in two weeks after we remove all recyclables. Hopefully the ground thaws soon and there are no floods this spring.

massplumber2008 · Mar 25, 2011, 01:36 PM

So we saved you some hassles and probably a little money, too... right?

I'm super glad you listened to us... :)

Thanks for updating us... that means a lot right there!

Mark