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    CanseiKirsten's Avatar
    CanseiKirsten Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Feb 7, 2011, 08:01 PM
    I love him one moment, then despise him the next.
    Hi, I'm Kirsten. I'm 23 and from the US.
    My question has to do with my boyfriend (age 24), who I've been dating for around 9 months, since May/June of last year.
    Let me start by saying that this is _not_ my first serious relationship, but he is the first person that I've felt so strongly about. I adored and was so in love with him. I still admire many of his character traits.

    However there are 3 things that happened that have drastically changed my feelings towards this man.
    (1.)
    When we first started dating, he was pretty good friends with his ex-girlfriend. I was comfortable with this, and not threatened in the slightest. (I'm a girl with a lot of confidence and a good self-image, no emotional baggage, pretty, fun, intelligent, &tc.) The three of us actually went to a baseball game last summer, and I had a lot of fun. He said this to me about his ex: "She is one of my best friends, and it's important to me that you meet her." He had her picture on his wall with all his other friends, too.
    At this point I was A-OK with everything and never thought anything of it.

    So a few months later on a Friday night I was driving home from across town. I called him up to say, "Hey, what are you doing? Wanna hang out?" &tc. So I go over to his house, and he's cooking dinner. He says, "Hey, I invited (my ex) over for dinner, so she might be here soon." I wasn't suspicious of this at all, I was just like, "Ok cool, I'm starved, how was your day?" After talking for a bit, he said, "I'm gonna text her and see where she is." His ex, who I will now refer to as CamelToe, never showed up for dinner. While we were eating I said, "Hey, I thought you invited CamelToe? Where is she?" "Oh, I dunno, she never texted me back."

    I got mad at this *recently* because I got to thinking,
    Why did he invite his ex over for dinner on a Friday night when he was alone in the house? Can't he invite her over when everyone is home? I probably would have never known about it if I hadn't invited myself over. I asked him about it recently while we were arguing. I said, "How come that night you invited CamelToe over, she never showed up?"
    He says: "Because I texted her to not come over because my girlfriend is here." So really when he said, "I'm going to text her to see where she is," his intention was to tell her to stay home because I was there!
    He says he lied about it because his last girlfriend was always really jealous of CamelToe, so he was scared he was going to mess things up with me. He also says he picked up bad relationship habits from dating a jealous control freak lady.
    I hate lying, for any reason, and I always admired this guy for his honesty! So this was the first breach of trust. Not an impulsive lie, but a premeditated lie, and he made himself look like he was hiding something!

    Oh yeah, some history on him and his ex: They were friends in high school, dated for three years, she was his first girlfriend. He joined the Marine Corps after graduating, was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, and she cheated on him with three different people while he was fighting in service. They lost contact for two years (he says not by choice?) and has had other relationships since then. When I met him, he had been single for 6 months since his last girlfriend, who I do not know. He says he forgave his ex and returned to being friends with her.

    2.) We were supposed to have a date on a Friday or Saturday night after I got home from dance practice, and I said I'll call you after I'm done. The place I went to didn't have any signal, and it was a late practice until 11:00 p.m. (we're a volunteer group, and we're like family.) I called him and said, "Hey, what are you up to?" Him: "I'm at CamelToe's house. Do you want to come over?" Oh really? >:/ Cause I thought me and you had plans, and you're saying, "Do you want to come over?"? That's where I got jealous/mad. "No, I'm just going to go home >:( " Okay, so not that big of a deal, but you're going to have dinner and a movie at your ex's house and not even get excited over the plans we had? Ugh. His defense: "I didn't have anything to do, and she invited me over. I tried calling you but you didn't answer so I thought you were mad at me." Um, for what? We hadn't had any fights or arguments up to this point.

    I talked to him about it, and I told him it made me feel insecure and I felt that it was inappropriate and disrespectful to our relationship to be alone with her in her home.
    Never did I give any inclination that he should stop talking to her completely, but that's what he did! He took her picture down off his wall, and stopped answering her calls. I remember he told me that she blew up his phone for about a week.
    I had another talk with him to say, "It was not my intention to break up your friendship. I don't care if you guys are friends as long as you keep within respectful boundaries."
    Him: "Well, she wasn't really my friend. She was more like an acquaintance."
    More lies! "When I first met you, you said she was one of your best friends!" I told him it was rude and unwarranted to suddenly cut off all contact with no explanation, and if she was really just a friend he wouldn't need to do that. I never got a straight answer out of that one.

    3.) This past December, his friend from out of state came down to visit him. We decided to go out bar hopping and get smashed, of course with a DD. Our bar crawl began and ended with a certain bar that one of his good friends was a server at. She was delighted to see him since he hadn't been out in a while (full-time with school, no extra cash to go out usually). So at the end of the night we came back to see her, and we were all thoroughly inebriated. Except this time when he sees her, he's way more touchy-feely. He puts his arms around her from behind, and later whispers something in her ear and kisses her on the cheek.
    I go outside without a word to take a walk because I'm fuming mad. I call my girlfriend up to talk to her and calm down. (I wasn't sure if I should be mad at that or not because I was drunk.) Halfway up the street my boyfriend comes running up to me to try to talk to me. I popped off at him because I was mad, "Can you, um, like, F*** off?"
    He proceeds to leave me alone, and we ride back to his house in the same car. I know I hurt his feelings by cussing at him because I'd never spoken to him like that before. I sit outside on his porch to think, and then I come back inside to talk to him and apologize. I go up to his room and begin by explaining why it made me mad to see that, I'm kind of insecure about our relationship lately, etc. He responds with,
    "How do you even know I kissed her?! I didn't kiss her! You don't know because you didn't see anything!" Wow, this time a blatant lie.
    I said, "Yes you did! I saw it!"
    He says, "Well maybe I did!" And THEN he starts yelling at me about the stuff that happened to him in Iraq, I start crying because I really just wanted to make up. It was scary and I laughed out of nervousness, he gets angrier, I explain to him I laughed because it was a nervous reaction, he says, "Why are you nervous?" kind of scoffing like I made it up. So I go downstairs to get away from him and sit down on his couch crying. He follows me downstairs to yell at me some more, call me names, tell me I'm shallow and petty, he doesn't love me anymore, no one's ever made him this mad before, whatever.
    Fast forward to morning and he doesn't remember screaming at me. Somehow I felt like it was sort of my fault, but recently I have realized it's his own lack of personal responsibility that caused this to happen!

    So because of these things, lately I've been Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He bought me flowers this past week, and I threw them out in anger. Some days I remember all the reasons I love him, other days I feel hurt and anger. I've been lashing out and trying to hurt his feelings the way he hurt mine, only later to apologize. My ugly side has been brought out.

    He was the first person I ever really opened up to, loved, and trusted, and I feel like he betrayed all of that. I can't get excited over him the way I used to. I feel like it's never going to be the same, but I can't let go. I really, truly love him.
    I can't live with either decision to keep this relationship or break up with him. I want him to do something to regain my trust. Actually I want him to build a time machine and keep all that stuff from happening. I want to forgive him, but memories haunt me. How do I get over this and move forward?

    Thank you for anyone who took the time to read all of this! Actually I guess I wanted to vent rather than ask a question... I would sincerely appreciate any advice. Because I need it. A lot.

    Thank you,
    Kirsten
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,850, Reputation: 5428
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    #2

    Feb 7, 2011, 08:33 PM

    (Even though your essay was long, the paragraph breaks helped a lot. Often we don't get that, much less the good, clear writing. Thank you for that.)

    I'm thinking you've made your own bed and are now having to lie in it. You never appeared to mind that CamelToe was always part of the equation. That was very generous of you, but it seems to have become your downfall. Blaming him for his yelling (I was yelling at you myself at that point) and putting him on the defensive all the time, plus throwing away his flowers make me wonder if you really are kicking yourself but taking it out on him.

    You say memories haunt you? But they were memories you allowed to be made.

    Can he put CamelToe into history now? Will you let him?
    themoor's Avatar
    themoor Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Feb 7, 2011, 08:35 PM
    OMG! I couldn't even read the rest of what you wrote for two reasons: #1 I felt like I was being sucked into a vortex and #2 The little voice in my head just said, "STOP! It's too much to read!" So I will just go off the first three paragraphs which gave me the Camel Toe part which actually caught my perverted attention. This girl must really have a Camel Toe because you just don't call someone that kind of name which also mean you have great attention to detail which is definitely expressed in your writing as well. Anyway, I cut to the chase. He's and idiot and you are a moron if and only if you let the voice in your head tell you that it's okay for him to still be hanging around his ex-girlfriend. You should watch the movie called "Little Black Book." The late actress Brittany Murphy is in this film which is similar to your situation. In the film she was dating a guy who was still emotionally tied to his ex-Camel Toe. I'm still lingering over the night you invited yourself over to the dinner... He could have at least lied and said, "Hey I was just about to call you. What are you doing right now? Because I'm cooking and I wanted to see if you could come have dinner with me. Also, is it okay if Camel Toe has dinner with us?" What an idiot... this should also tell you that he is not very smart either. I'm a man and I have played these games before although I was a lot smarter than your BF... much smarter! Anyway, If you are not into doing three-ways then move on because three is a crowd when the other two are having all the fun and most of the time you are not really "invited!"... catch my drift!

    Words of Wisdom

    P.S.
    The nickname (Camel Toe) that you gave her is priceless! LMAO!
    CanseiKirsten's Avatar
    CanseiKirsten Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #4

    Feb 7, 2011, 09:12 PM
    @Wondergirl: I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think I have any right to tell him who he can or cannot be friends with, and ultimately he is the one to make these choices. It is true that you get the behavior that you tolerate, but I can't control whether he lies to me.
    When I threw his flowers away, it was out of resentment. I was thinking, "I don't want flowers, I want you to grow up, I want sincerity."

    Also, in what ways do I put him on the defensive? I don't want to put him on the defensive, I want to be on equal ground :/
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,850, Reputation: 5428
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    #5

    Feb 7, 2011, 09:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by CanseiKirsten View Post
    I don't think I have any right to tell him who he can or cannot be friends with, and ultimately he is the one to make these choices.
    I agree, but you seemed to knock yourself out including or being willing to include his ex.
    It is true that you get the behavior that you tolerate, but I can't control whether he lies to me.
    No, you can't control him, but you don't have to set him up to lie by allowing a situation and then deciding that's not a good idea.
    When I threw his flowers away, it was out of resentment. I was thinking, "I don't want flowers, I want you to grow up, I want sincerity."
    And how will he show his sincerity? Isn't he getting mixed messages from you?
    CanseiKirsten's Avatar
    CanseiKirsten Posts: 3, Reputation: 2
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    #6

    Feb 7, 2011, 09:30 PM
    Are you talking about the night in the bar? What do you think I should have done instead of 'allowing that situation'?

    Do you guys think I'm being too dramatic? :\
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,850, Reputation: 5428
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    #7

    Feb 7, 2011, 09:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by CanseiKirsten View Post
    Are you talking about the night in the bar? What do you think I should have done instead of 'allowing that situation'?
    Good grief! You admit you were all thoroughly inebriated. What should you have done? Not gotten thoroughly inebriated.
    Do you guys think I'm being too dramatic? :\
    Yeah, I'm leaning in that direction. You tell him okay; then you tell him no, it's not okay. I felt like I was watching a tennis match when reading your first post.

    Like I said before, you seem to be causing much of what you get mad about later.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,107, Reputation: 10852
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    #8

    Feb 7, 2011, 10:57 PM

    I think the lack of setting some ground rules, and boundaries you can both respect, and agree on is the real problem here. Such as no more lying, or no more dating with exes along, unless maybe it's a DOUBLE date may be helpful.

    Personally, I wouldn't date a person who was that involved with an ex, and its just weird to me that one that cheated several times could end up being such a friend. Situations with exes always seem to have a lot of drama, and confusion, and you are into this guy pretty deep. So you are into his weird drama.

    One thing though that's really obvious, and that's the fact that the honeymoon is over, and you are finding more things out about each other. And its normal to not like everything about him, and his ways.

    The real issue is you have to decide if you can deal with this person now, and if he is worth it. One thing about it, you BOTH have to communicate, and work together to make adjustments you can agree on to move forward, or the things you don't like about each other will drive a wedge between you, and cause all kinds of conflicts.

    Face it, we all have issues, but a couple has to be able to talk, and listen to each other, and reach agreements, and compromises that benefit them both. Fighting and arguing is easy, especially after a night of careless cabaret-ing. Talking and listening takes some work.

    I don't think you are overly dramatic, but maybe can be emotionally carried away. Nothing wrong with either really. You are, who you are.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #9

    Feb 7, 2011, 11:20 PM

    I completely understand where you're coming from. Been there, done that.

    You love him so you want to forgive him, but you can't let go of this things he's done that hurt you, and since you can't find a way to move on, you're being passive aggressive, because you don't know what to do about this.

    The only way to solve this is to talk to him. But there's a right way and a wrong way to talk. In order for you two to have a good conversation about this you have to let go of some of your anger. You have to be able to sit down and calmly tell him how you feel, and why you feel that way. No blaming. No yelling. No "you did this you jerk!". Calm, rational discussion.

    If you can do that, and actually get your feelings heard, I think you two can move forward, set some ground rules, and make this relationship work.

    If you can't do that, then I fear in time you'll end up leaving the relationship, or he will, because of all the hurt and anger.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #10

    Feb 7, 2011, 11:37 PM

    I think his history of lying is well worth paying attention to.
    (I have a boyfriend who does that too, but he doesn't have an ex in the picture and doesn't kiss other people. Still, I haven't figure out what to do yet.)

    I think your guy has poor boundaries with other women and when you called him on it he yelled at you AND tried to make you feel sorry for him when you were the one hurt by his kissing the cocktail waitress. I think he's quite dumpable already. He should not be using his experiences in Iraq as an excuse to kiss other women, in front of you no less.

    The whole thing with telling you that he invited CamelToe over and then TELLING you that he told her not to come--he's TRYING to make you jealous and insecure. I don't think he's dumb. I think his motivation is not to conceal it but to hurt you with it. The crack about you being mad at him was not intended to be believed but to make you feel sorry for him, turning the tables on you again. He sounds exhausting and I think you'll feel a lot better when you are finally apart, which I expect will happen sooner or later. I recommend sooner.
    asking's Avatar
    asking Posts: 2,673, Reputation: 660
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    #11

    Feb 7, 2011, 11:45 PM

    said, "Yes you did! I saw it!"
    He says, "Well maybe I did!" And THEN he starts yelling at me about the stuff that happened to him in Iraq, I start crying because I really just wanted to make up. It was scary and I laughed out of nervousness, he gets angrier, I explain to him I laughed because it was a nervous reaction, he says, "Why are you nervous?" kind of scoffing like I made it up. So I go downstairs to get away from him and sit down on his couch crying. He follows me downstairs to yell at me some more, call me names, tell me I'm shallow and petty, he doesn't love me anymore, no one's ever made him this mad before, whatever.
    Fast forward to morning and he doesn't remember screaming at me. Somehow I felt like it was sort of my fault,
    I just reread this part. I have to say this is classic abusive behavior.
    He kissed another woman; you complained and then this bizarre sequence of events where he's following you around yelling at you. Including the part about not remembering what he said the next day. Yeah, I'd say this guy is bad news.

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