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To All Self-Proclaimed Christians
A lot of this is not going to make sense, since I’m just basically writing whatever is coming into my mind right now so bear with me.
I have a feeling the people (not all) who claim to love or believe in God only do it because of his ability to put people in heaven or hell. It's like a mass brown nosing. I wonder whether those same people would still love him if he wasn't so high and mighty. Think about it there are countless of these self-righteous, sanctimonious blockheads that claim belief (some may even be priests) for their own spiritual benefit. And those who do all the self-less acts of giving and volunteering is in a way being selfish I think for it gives them JOY in return, which goes against the definition of selfless. I realize I’m being extremely cynical right now and am in no way trying to disrespect those who are fully devoted to giving their time and effort for the better cause. But there are those, I might even dare to say a majority of the people (including me) who only do such “selfless” acts to benefit themselves in an effort to improve the look on their resume or college application. That being said, I would much rather like to see a Buddhist who completely devotes himself to his religion without fear or doubt than see a regular Christian who constantly lies to himself. It makes me sick to look at such overzealous people praise God when their motives are so obvious. Many old people I see are overzealous (understandably so since their time is running pretty low to make a good impression on God) with their constant preaching and praying. In addition, I also can't help but think the concept of religion to be nothing, but a mass conspiracy to keep the lower class in control (it sounds paranoid and foolish I know, but it can’t be completely ruled out). Religion has first appeared in an attempt to explain the inexplainable, which has by now has been replaced by science. So with the original purpose of religion gone, it makes sense for others to try to use it to their own advantage as is very apparent throughout history (especially in Catholicism). Without God to give hope of a glorious afterlife, there's no way in hell these lower class people will stand by and be trampled on. They would try to live out their life to the best and mass chaos will roar throughout the globe. I think the main lesson here is to be practical and accept the fact that there is a chance that God may not exist, but to continue to have faith in Him because nobody can be sure of his existence, for there is no proof and continue to live by His rules and teachings. That being said, how do you believe when you can’t be sure? I think the better word for it is “trust”. You must trust that God exists and not believe he exists, which I think are different (someone help clarify this point). There’s a difference in saying I believe the Knicks will make it to the Final Four and I trust the Knicks will make it to the Final Four. To trust is to fully understand and accept the fact that He may not exist and yet still have faith whereas to believe is to completely rule out such possibilities and is more like blindly believing something, which for some reason sounds worse. Lol I just realized that instead of asking a question, I've done a rant. Well the queastion is: Is there a point in religion? Or better yet, what IS religion? Is it a simple reward and punishment system like we do with dogs or something much deeper? I would also be interested to read in your comments about what I have said. |
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If you are unsure he exists I dare you to pray each night before bed " Jesus if you are real i want to know you and i want you to reveal yourself to me" if you do this for 60 days sincerely I guarantee you that you will meet him in person and you will them know him personally, as far as God being all high and mighty in your letter did you forget that he came to earth in the form of a baby, and served others while here, than not only died, but died on a cross to pay for our sins, nothing is more humble than what Jesus is and did. I think you need to read your bible a little more and talk to God a little more, as you have a lot of things here confused, and also you say there are people that are not true in what they are doing, Jesus himself warned that many would falsely come and use his name, so we should already know that, and everywhere bad people can be found, even in Churches
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You see I know God exists. I have never doubted. As far as religion goes it sounds that your very cynical but that is your choice and your feelings. I do believe that you are paranoid and that your lumping people in one category. It does not matter what group your connected with. What religion, What culture. There are people who want to make themselves look good, just for the show. Not for the benefit of others. It is not up to you or I to judge anybody's heart. It is up to God. God knows who is sincere in his/her love and who is not. The only true life lesson is to LOVE, Learn true love and to share true love to others.
Joe |
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Your faith or trust is only as good as the object in which you put your trust in. God doesn't want to send anybody to hell. He sent his only begotten son to seek and save that which was lost. In order to understand this you must read john 3:17-18. Along with john3:16. God does not condem. The world condems itself through unbelief. God does exist and that is the truth. Jesus said "i am the way the TRUTH and the life no one comes unto the Father but by me." John 14:6. It is the truth and it still is the truth whether someone believes it or not. I would rather you find this out now instead of the other side of eternity.
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Hi Very,
Oh my. Not sure where to start. Oh Yes I love God, Our Father and feel so unworthy of His love. To be honest, and this may be wrong, but I don't think of eternal life, as I know I just have too much work to do to cleanse my soul. I trust and yes believe there is a God, and have been blessed at a very young age to have been introduced to Him, something I will forever be grateful to my Mother for. Why do I trust and believe? Because God our Father, carried me through some pretty sad days and I truly felt his love. I do not have this faith so it is in exchange for eternal life. I have this faith because I have been blessed, so very blessed and have an obligation, because I have been given This blessing to know Our Father, to share His love with others. Oh not by preaching, but from sharing love from the heart. When you do and give from your heart, it is always genuine. If you wish, take a quiet moment and talk to Our Father. Someone wants shared with me, that we can talk to Him, just like we would our earthly father. Tell Him your fears, your doubts, your concerns. Open your heart to him, you will be so surprised how you feel his prescence. Just so you know, so many times I found myself, forgetting to pray, staying in the dark, thinking I can handle this life on my own. When I would forget, that's when I struggled the most, when things became so unclear. The moments that I remembered the love of Our Father, that's when I am the happiest. Sorry, I hope this helps. Seems I am rambling on myself. |
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I personally think I am wiccan. I do believe in a god or at least think I do, but at time's I wonder why and how is there a supreme being. Honestly that's not possible... scienctifically. There's nothing wrong with wondering and doubting. My fiancé doesn't believe anything... so basically there may be a god or not. You just need to reseaurch different belief's and maybe you'll find what you what or you may be of no religion.
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Scientifically there is support that there is a supreme being, a supreme creator. Anything is possible and everything is possible. We are only a small part that actually exists in this whole world. It is amazing to think of all the possibilities out there. The world is bigger then just our earth.
Joe |
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 Originally Posted by verycurious
While that might be true of children, as we mature and consider the world and all that is in it, we do well to become informed so that our opinions are based on something more than our feelings at the moment, and to ensure that what we say is not merely governed by our emotions. One definition of Religion is that it is any form of attendance on or worship of a supreme being. Having said that, to deal with all the objections/questions you raise about religion and the religious would take several volumes. Is it not sufficient to say that many people derive direction, succour, and comfort from their faith? These would seem to be excellent points derived from religion. On the question of fear of opunishment as the motivation for religious adherence, I do not see it. That opinion - I will not call it an argument - has been used for centuries by the non-religious as a form of criticism. But what if there is more to it than that? What if religious faith is not the delusion that the non-religious sometimes claim it to be? What if there is something real in the religious experiences of mankind? Does person A have to feel what person B feels in order to make person B's religious experience valid? Does person A have to feel the same love for for Person B's wife that person B feels for Person B's love for his wife to be valid for person B, or can he love her irrespective of any feeling person A might or might not have? Religion is like love. Some will say that it is love, and that it is love for God rather than fear of God that motivates them to be 'religious.' I consider your answers qwould be better answers for you and more understandable and acceptable to you if you were to delve into the natyure of religious experience as experienced by others, rather than sitting, as it were, on the sidelines watching a game in which you are not involved. You might never become a player, but at least you will begin to understand the game and appreciate that those who play it enjoy it. I will address one further point you make, and that is the question of social control. It is undeniable that there have been times and places where rleigion was used to subdue the poor and keep them in their places. One well-known hymn, says: The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate. God made them high and lowly And ordered their estate. That worked well when the local minister was in cahoots with the local squire and the local maghistrate to keep the underpaid, overworked, and ill-used masses quiet. However, time has marche don, the earth has rotated a few mopre times, and the places where that was so have enjoyed a social revolution so that no minister, squire, or magistrate is counted more worthy of anything than the most lowly working man. Interestingly enough, although certain forms of religion imposed such controls, it was also certain forms of religion that broke them, raised mankind to its feet, and threw off the shackles of slavery and serfdom. It has not always been bad news everywhere for everyone. Religion has done and still does make major contributions to society and our well being. The non-religious benefit by being in the same place, whether they like that or not. That is a fact of life. While it is customary for some to notice religion only to find fault with it, it is a imbalanced view of the world's religions as a whole to heap only negativity at their doors. One can only do such if one is blind or ignorant of the many positive contributions that religion has made to ease the burdens of humanity. Thank you for an interesting post and some thought-provoking questions. M:)RGANITE |
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Originally Posted by verycurious
I'm not sure what you mean by a "point." There is a strictly sociological atheistic way of looking at religion that is taught in our schools of higher learning which would partially be in accord with the reward punishment viewpoint. In this scenario religion would also be a way of alleviating mankind's fears of the unknown via giving the illusion that it has some control over its own destiny and that the forces of nature can be appeased. The majority of non-atheists view religion as a manifestation of divine guidance. For Christians, for example, the religion revealed via the OT and NT comprises God's instructive message to mankind. BTW The relationship between God and man isn't that of master and pet. It's one of parent and child. Which brings up the question of whether rewarding someone for following instructions make him a pet. Just an afterthoght. No humor intended. |
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Originally Posted by Allheart
:) |
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Originally Posted by Raynefreak
The questions of 'why' and 'how' there can be a supreme being are much less important than actually experiencing God, and by knowing he is without necessarily being able either to explain your faith or defend it. Be happy. Look for the light. M:)RGANITE |
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Hello VeryCurios,
What you have said in many ways is true and yet in today's society will not be understood because much of organized religion's base there faith or beliefs on emotions. Please allow me to explain. When one goes to a doctor for an opinion or for medical attention, as a thinking person we would check the doctor out and see if he qualifies and has the skills and experience to deal with your problem. Most would ask questions and seek answers to those questions. There will be some who do the leg work in order to "trust" this doctor to do his/her very best for his patients. Then there will be those who will just go to the doctor and won't ask any questions, or check this doctors background. This kind of person then can be said to seek their medical attention by "blind faith," unlike the other person who wants to be sure that they can trust this doctor. When one searches for the Creator, who we call God, one needs to do the leg work, so to speak. We need to ask question such as the ones you asked.( " Is there a point in religion? Or better yet, what IS religion? Is it a simple reward and punishment system like we do with dogs or something much deeper?) This is what seperate an intellegent person from those who go through life with what I call, "blind faith." In the doctor example the person who checked out the doctors backgroung and abilities, had their questions answered to "their" satisfaction, before placing trust in the doctor. Once he felt comfortable and had all his questions answered, he then felt a sense of " satisfaction, before placing trust in the doctor. Once he felt comfortable and had all his questions answered, he then felt a sense of " in that doctor. Then as time went on and trust built in him, he was able to place his faith in this doctor. Trust and faith in God can help us overcome fear.—Proverbs 3:5, 6; 29:25. Just like we place our trust in a doctor to care for us or a loved one. We first learned the doctors skills and his personality, was he caring, his track record on how he cared for other patients, and many others things that helped you to first “trust” him and then allow him to care for your health issue. Walking by faith requires implicit trust in God's ability to direct our lives. We must be fully convinced that he really knows what is in our best interests. As we make decisions in life and act on them, we take into account “realities we do not see. Walking by faith, not by sight! Trust and confidence in God's promises will safeguard us from experiencing 'shipwreck concerning our faith.' (1 Timothy 1:19) By all means, then, let us be determined to continue walking by faith, fully confident and with complete Trust in God, for without that trust we can not have complete faith in God or that he exists. There is no trust without searching for the knowledge that builds trust. We must convince ourselves without any doubt that God does exits. How can we do that? So Verycurious, you are correct we need trust in order to have faith and maintain it. Here are some reasons I personally feel God exists. Think about them and let me know what you feel about these matters. 1- . The existence of order presupposes the existence of organizing intelligence. Such intelligence can be none other than God's doing. Natural order was not invented by the human mind or set up by certain perceptive powers, but the order of things shows intelligence and power. 2-Scientists have identified over 100 chemical elements. Their atomic structure displays an intricate mathematical interrelationship of the elements. The periodic t able points to obvious design. Such amazing design could not possibly be accidental, a product of chance. This is what convinced me beyond any doubt. Since God cannot be seen, we must reason on his existence by looking at things around us that we can see. Take a good look at the human body 3-. Our Brain is a supercomputer without equal in all the earth. “The brain,” reports one authority, “sorts one hundred million bits of data from the eyes, ears, nose and other sensory outposts each second.. . A computer capable of handling a single brain's output would cover the entire earth.” 4- Our EYES have been described as natural cameras. They are perfect self-cleaning, self-focusing “cameras” that take three-dimensional pictures in living color. 5- Our VOCAL CORDS can produce not only speech but some of the most beautiful music to delight the human ear. The melodies that the human voice can produce Have a beauty far excelling that of a finely tooled violin. 6- The electrical wiring of an automobile is most primitive when compared with our NERVOUS SYSTEM. This vast network transmits information to and from scores of Our vital organs with an efficiency that dazzles scientists. You personally may not have seen the maker of a computer, a camera, a violin or the electrical system of a car, yet you know that the designer of each did exist. His handiwork testifies to his existence and skill. Since no one will hesitate to say that each of these fine inventions had a designer and maker, is it not obvious that no less could be said of our body? “In a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made,” observed a wise king over 3,000 years ago. I believe with all my heart here is a loving Designer of our bodies who is also the Creator of the entire universe. But in spite of such logical reasoning, some persons will still say that there is no God. Why? There is a variety of reasons. The majority have doubts because of the following questions they have not researched and studied so as to get a satisfying answer to the below questions. a) How could God exist when there is so much wickedness on earth? b) Would belief in God restrict my lifestyle and take all the fun out of living? c)What about the hypocrisy among those who profess to believe in God? d) Is not such belief unscientific and old-fashioned? Such questions need answering. Ones you have answered these question satisfactory to your own mind, logic and heart, you will either believe in God or believe that God does not exist. But once you have answered these questions to your satisfaction then and only then can you have trust that builds the faith that is needed to believe that God exists. Remember, first we must examine the matter and meditate on what we find, before trust can come and then we will have faith build on trust and not blind faith that comes from emotions or from what others say, but you will convince yourself that either God exists or he does not. Put forth the effort and your answer will follow. Take care, Hope12 :) |
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Hey, I started to read all the posts, but it is a bit daunting to I skipped ahead. To your post, all I have to say is I believe because He has been there for me in the dark times and I have felt comforted. He sent me a miracle too. When my ex-husband was abusing me, I went to a counselor to talk about my situation which was bleak indeed. Well, when I entered the room, the thought occurred to me, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you," Well, I deducted that it was only a thought and a remembrance ,as you may, from my Chruch days.
When I returned to my home, my mother called me from 200 miles away to say she was in prayer for me and had a word for me from God. It was the same scripture and was given to her at the same time as I received mine. My life was restored and blessed within nine years after I followed the first part of His instruction, To seek Ye first,"and yes, selfish me... I wanted His love and blessings and forgiveness. Am I selfish? Yes, in many ways. God understands my weaknesses and still loves me enough to help me. I hope and pray you find all the answers you are looking for. Blessings to you. By the way, I love to do for others because of the blessings that it gives me to see them light up. Many benefits come from a life of giving and caring. I hope my children are so selfish. |
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My relationship with a God that I understands needs no labels, only gratitude for all the blessings and guidance I have received and will receive. I am only required to be a good human being to the best of my humble ability
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You sound like Karl Marx when he said religion is the opium of the people:
Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. [Emphasis added] The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo. While I do not ascribe to any Marxist thought, I also do not abscribe to the Bible thumping zealots who you see on television, jumping up and down the podium, tears streaming, wailing, while counting the donations that people send in. It is not the concept of religion I am seeking, it is the relationship with my Redeemer. Very personal. Your rant is well noted but pardon my disagreement with you. |
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Hey shy, why not be slow to judgement? What of the home bound that have no way to get the word but from the television? My mother is an invalid and cannot even use a walker and her wheelchair is most uncomfortable for her. I agree that some televangelists are not authentic, how can you speak for all? Have you heard Joel Osteen. He is very inspirational and very kind and loving and gives a lot of practical application to everyday living and doing right for yourself and others and being slow to judge and having a good attitude, etc, etc, etc. I don't see jumping and wailing or a constant demand for contributions or anything of the sort. Just thought you might benefit from seeing another view. Have a wonderful day.
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I believe many of us obtain material blessings for having worked for them. This is common to both the world & Christians.
I agree with what one poster said about what matters more-& that is a relationship with the Lord. Man was created to have fellowship with God but because of his stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way, & fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference is evidence of what the Bible calls sin.(spiritual separation from God- Romans 6:23) Enter our Savior, Jesus, who died for the sins of man. John 6:40(Jesus speaking)" For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." God also desired to reunite the Holy Spirit with the human spirit so they could again be one. (The 1st is when Adam & Eve sinned- sin came in & the Spirit went out) When you accept Christ, the Holy Spirit comes to reside in your heart(along with Jesus). Now the Holy Spirit becomes your own personal Counselor, Conscience, Convictor & Comforter. He fills your soul(mind, will & emotions) with perfect truth. John16:13"when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into into all truth" Those who are joined with the Spirit better understand spiritual things(1Corinthians2:14) Now, I could go on, discussing about the power of the Holy Spirit-but I think it may be too much to read at one time. I'm am proud to be a Christian. Insomuch as I am only boasting in the Lord. I could do this all day! Lol. |
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For SexyBeast and Retroia,
I am not talking about the 700 Club or Joel Osteen. I am talking the Benny Hinn's and Jimmy Swaggart's of the world. I support the mission of the 700 Club and I listen to Joel Osteen (actually started when his Father, John, was on television). I never said I was speaking for all televangelists - I said "the Bible thumping zealots who you see on television, jumping up and down the podium, tears streaming, wailing, while counting the donations that people send in". The two examples you both gave do not meet that criteria. |
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Thanks for clearing that up. Shy. I just love Joel and haven't had the benefit of seeing his father evangalize, From the experience I related about my mom, you can see why I need clarification. Blessings to you and yours. (smile)
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Originally Posted by shygrneyzs
M:) |
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