[portlandblazers]

1991 Civic EX. I was driving along today and all of a sudden the engine cuts out, check engine light comes on and sputters and is running rough. I'm thinking something fuel related, as I have had intermittent problems getting it started over the past 6 months (3 or 4 times) where it cranks but acts like its not getting gas. Today, it just cut out and the check engine light flashed and doesn't turn off.

The Car does run and will drive (barely lol) I can barely put ANY pressure on the pedal and it will get up to about 50mph... any more pressure than that and it acts like its not getting fuel??


Owned car since 2007, never had a single problem like this all I've done to it is changed the oil... never checked fuel filter/spark plugs/wires.

The car is a hunk of crap, so I'd like to avoid replacing one thing, continued problems, replace another etc... Possibly taking it to get the codes checked... I don't really want to venture out in it I'd rather drive my truck for safety..

I was thinking (loose order) 1. Fuel filter 2. fouled spark plugs 3. distributor problems 4. o2 sensor

Im going to start with the plugs and filter and go from there... any help would greatly be appreciated.. I commute 140 miles round trip each day and my Dodge on 37's doesn't help keep money in my wallet!

[TxGreaseMonkey]

The ECM is likely toast.

Turning the ignition switch to ON (Position II), not START, does the CEL come on and then go off after 2 seconds? If not, the problem is with the ACG (ALT) (S) 15 amp fuse, in the under dash fuse/relay box; ECM (perform the K-Test, below); main relay; or the ignition switch. Perform tests in that order.

The K-Test: Remove the MAP Sensor connector and turn the ignition switch to ON (Position II). Using a multimeter, check for 5 volts going between the MAP Sensor connector's reference wire (+) and ground. As you look at the connector, this is the socket on the right. Really press the black test lead into a cleaned main ECM ground on the thermostat housing. If the voltage is low, it's probably indicating ECM failure. Most failed ECMs will record a fraction of a volt. To me, the K-Test is simple, elegant, and accurate. Many Hondas parked for several years are now back on the road. "The K-Test creates massive value, by providing a low cost solution where one did not previously exist."--TxGM

[portlandblazers]

Well I'm not sure if this will change your diagnosis but, I checked the fuel by taking the screw that depressurizes the lines off then attempted to start. Plenty of fuel was coming out, so I ruled out the fuel filter. But after doing this, the car ran way better. It would run normal under 40% throttle (anything after sputters) and 3000 rpm. Anything after that and it acts like its pulsing off a rev limiter at anything past 3k, and if you floor it, loud backfiring lol. I took it out on my road and it drives completely normal as long as you are under the 40% and 3000 rpm (this equals about 55mph max btw)

I also attempted to jump the diagnostic plug to get the CEL code. Tried to use speakerwire but this failed.

And another thing, the CEL clicks off after about two seconds, then turns back on a couple seconds after you fire it. Car has 185,000 or so on it.

[portlandblazers]

Please help

[portlandblazers]

Txgreasemonkey I really need your help? Does all this still point to the ecm?? I will buy a volt meter if I have to I just need to know I really need the car and won't pay 1000 for it to be fixed I need help please sir

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes. Borrow a friend's multimeter, or buy one, but perform the K-Test on the ECM.

[portlandblazers]

OK sorry I was out of state for work. Haven't had time to work on the car yet. I can go buy a multimeter, could you explain or link to a page where it shows where the map sensor is if you would be so kind. I'm not exactly familiar with this nor computer savvy, I'm going to try to find this out on my own as well, but I know will probably result in a headache trying to find the right information.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

On the firewall, just to the right of the fuel filter. Look for the hose that goes to the throttle body--that will be a sign that you have located it.

[portlandblazers]

All right perfect. I have a 3 day weekend so now I can really dig into it. I know exactly what you are talking about, I clearly remember from when I was searching for the fuel filter. I will update later today

[portlandblazers]

There was a slight update in the condition of the car. I was driving it around and all of a sudden it sputtered and died for good. I had to get it towed back to my house. Now when I turn the key to the II position, without starting it, the CEL goes off within two seconds and I hear the loud click.

I also performed what I believe is your K test. I'm linking you to a photo of the plug that I performed the test on. http://s543.photobucket.com/albums/gg470/spolcyc/?action=view&current=untitled.jpg It has three female plugs. Im not sure which one you wanted me to put the tester into, but I do know voltage is +/- So it'll read the proper voltage just + or - tried out all the combos on the plug. (as in positive in one hole and negative in another hole on the plug, thus filling 2/3 of the holes at one time) and they all come out at about 4.95~ volts (cheap meter it fluctuates about half a volt.) Not sure if you mean ECM ground as in I need to connect it to a ground, but I'm going to go back outside and hunt around for what you are talking about.

The car has 186,000 miles on it, I can just run to the junk yard and get an ECM and MAP for 75 or 100 bucks I believe the guy said. Would it be a good idea to just change both out at the same time and see what happens? Don't you think it would be good for the car? I'm planning on doing a full tune up of the vehicle here soon anyway..

[TxGreaseMonkey]

At 4.95 volts, your ECM looks fine. This assumes the CEL consistently comes on and goes off after 2 seconds, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II). If it doesn't, then the ECM is intermittently failing and needs to be replaced.

I would focus on the distrbutor, then, if the CEL consistently comes on and goes off after 2 seconds. After cleaning the main ECM ground on the thermostat housing, I would replace the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post265896

P.S. Most people use a paper clip to jump the Service Check Connector. You may want to go back and do this again before replacing the ICM and coil.

[portlandblazers]

Ok, a much clearer, better update for you. I understand it more so now I can explain it better. I took the connector off the map sensor. Inserted positive probe into the yellow w red stripe (+) wasn't sure where thermostat was, so I pushed the negative into the bundle of cable directly behind the battery terminal connector. Figured this ground would work OK. Also into a couple other ground wires. Voltage was 4.95-4.97. I'm 99% sure I performed the K test to standard.

In your mind, where would the problem source be located now? With the ECM apparently passing the K test, is it still a possible culprit? I appreciate the help and promise to be more prompt in doing tests and such, just had a busy stretch with work the last couple weeks. Its done now though, thankfully :)

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Again, I think the ECM is fine, based upon the K-Test and if the CEL consistently comes on and goes out. After that, you normally focus on the distributor--usually the problem is with the ICM and/or coil.

[portlandblazers]

Are there any surefire ways of testing this? Something with the Distributor makes sense to me though, from it all of a sudden pretty much dying with CEL light coming on the first time, to it working intermittently then completely quitting. Idk my expertise is on vehicles without pretty much any electronics in them.

Are there any ways of testing/things to look for on these specific distributors that would indicate a part failure in this area?

[portlandblazers]

Ok. So I've had a major breakthrough today. The problem/one of the problems is the distributor. I'll link you to the pics to see for yourself, the first pic on the left shows it with just the cap off. The second (middle) picture shows the real damage. All of the teeth on the gear are ripped off, the plastic thing on the end that appears to actually trigger the fire is also broken and very loose. Sorry for low quality pictures my camera phone isn't the best. Photo link below.

http://s543.photobucket.com/albums/gg470/spolcyc/

So going from here, obviously I need new components. Can I just change the magnetic gear on the end of the dizzy shaft and then a cap and rotor? Or am I going to have to replace everything including the shaft that goes in. Also what about the coil/ICM? They appeared to be clean and nothing visually wrong from the outside. Appears as if the distributor had maybe been replaced in the past because it doesn't look like it has 186000 miles on it. Would it be a good idea to replace these with the whole setup? Or start with just what is obviously needed and go from there? I would like to keep the budget as small as possible as I am also going to be doing plugs/wires and a few other things and want to keep the overall tlc costs on the car to a minimum because it isn't worth much as a whole.

[portlandblazers]

And how complicated is it to change out these distributors? Similar to an older v8? Do you have any guides on how to do this? Im worried because I don't want to have to tow it to a shop when I screw up the timing and can't figure it out when putting it back together

[portlandblazers]

Please help sir as I am so close to having the car running again, I just need your help on this one last bit. I priced a distrib out to 200 bucks, but id like to know the specifics of what I need to do first so I don't f it up on my own please help sir please help thank you for the kindness and patience you have shown to this point.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

If the CEL comes on for 2 seconds and goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II), then spend the money and buy a new genuine Honda distributor housing. Over 50% of new aftermarket distributors, at AMHD, don't work. Then, install your old ICM and coil in the new housing. Here's how to replace the distributor:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post288473

Here's how to replace the ICM and coil in the new Honda distributor housing:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post265896

After index marking the old and new distributor housings and engine mount, remove the old distributor, place it on your workbench, and transfer the ICM and coil from the old housing to the new Honda housing. If you want to go super budget, try picking up a distributor from your local salvage yard.

[portlandblazers]

Ok just one more final question before I do this...

It sounds like you are saying I would be better off getting a used genuine (junk yard) than a new aftermarket distributor?

I can get a new one for 209.00 (minus tax) or we have plenty of pick and pull type yards around here. (near a major metro area) If I go that route id find the car w lowest mileage and pull that one out. And maybe buy a second back up as well. Let me know your thoughts on the scrapyard used genuine vs a new aftermarket. For the hundredth time, I really appreciate the help

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Try to get a low mileage Honda distributor from salvage--ensure it's the right Honda Part No.