[mr.yet]

Well, guess just what I heard on FOX (GOVERNMENT NEWS) Network. Knew it was coming, starting Jan 23, 2007, all new passports will have a computer chip implanted in them with your personal information stored on the chip.

When the DOT representative was asked what kind of info was stored on the chip, he responded by saying well, things like your name, address, age, birthplace. I thought, you lying sack of . All that info is already written on the inside of the cover of the passport. He mentioned that the chip couldn’t be altered without the government knowing about it. He turns right around and says that he doesn't believe that this is in anyway an invasion of someone's privacy. He also committed on this is mainly designed for travelers coming and going to Canada or Mexico. He said it could be only tracked at border crossings. BS! If my passport is sitting on my desk at home those SOB's can track that and that's a fact.

Water meters were all changed and outfitted with transponders about five years ago. This allows the city to discontinue in house meter readings and resident meter reporting. The City department vehicle drives down the street and an onboard laptop reads the transponders from every house. I have seen the car in action and have observed it process a street of 32 houses in about one minute. Unfortunately I did not know about the dangers of RFID or know about any of the police state stuff so we allowed the tech into the house to replace the meter.

The transponder is about the size of the EZ-Pass transponder and the FAST Lane for New York and Massachusetts, respectively. The car is about 60-70 feet away from the transponder and it picks up the signal. This is obviously a great concern for passport as well. The RFID has a great range.

Pretty soon all "citizens" will be required to have an internal Passport and carry their papers with them at all times. Fixed antenna arrays will capture the signal as you or I walk by them, tracking us much like our post-2001 cell phones already do.

First, odd that they'd go to some Dept of Transport mouthpiece for an explanation. Passports are still done under the Bureau of Consular Affairs in the Dept of STATE.

Second, considering that it's pretty much the same info as is printed on the passport, this chip can be used as an anticounterfeiting measure, since passports have been stolen (and their proper bearer's murdered) not only to patch another photo in for some criminal or terrorist, but also sometimes with changes in the printed information to comport with the age, height, etc. of the criminal user.

Eventually, however, these chips might be used like those toll bridge EZ passes, where the passport is just waved over a sensor and is cleared instantly without any time spent opening and reading the pages.

Please address the ability to clone RFID and you will see it is meant to increase "identity theft" not provide so-called "security". Hacking groups have already come out and said they have cloned passports and have lifted information off unsuspecting holders.

Now they don’t even have to ask for your papers, you are automatically
Scan.

[KMSRyana]

Very disturbing, indeed. Land of the free ? I don't know much about RFID, but sounds like "1984" might have been better titled "2007"

[RickJ]

It sounds to me like the objections are to misuse of what sounds to me like a good use of technology. Do I misunderstand?

[KMSRyana]

Rick,

MY objection is exactly that... misuse. Historically government has abused it's power and infringed on our rights with technology advances.

[ScottGem]

Rick,

MY objection is exactly that... misuse. Historically government has abused it's power and infringed on our rights with technology advances.

I'm curious about that statement. Can you give some examples of it?

[KMSRyana]

Absolutely. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not against our government. I think this is the best place on earth and I have travelled abroad. I don't think the problem is our government, it's individuals within our government that abuse what power we give them.

The biggest recent abuse (yes, with technology) is the altering of electronic voting machines. HBO aired a documentary that was very interesting called "Hacking Democracy" and it's worth a watch. There are many books on proven vote machine alterations as well, the most notable being "Votescam, The Stealing of America" written by James and Kenneth Collier.

After 9/11 president Bush issued orders to monitor your email and cell calls (mine too). The ACLU fought this in ACLU v NSA and won. Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled against the NSA and didn't have particularly nice things to say about how many of our civil rights were being violated by their monitoring.

If you wonder if "Big Brother" is for real, research eminent domain and what rights you truly have when a WalMart, Target, or IKEA wants to move in...

Again, I love where I live. I just think that somewhere along the line someone will decide to misuse this technology. It's a tough issue because they've done a pretty damn good job so far with not having a recurrence of an attack on our native soil. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's a beautiful world we live in.

[NeedKarma]

Wired magazine has a bit about how to disable the RFID chip - hint: it involves the careless use of a hammer.

Edit to add: found the article here.

[KMSRyana]

Wired magazine has a bit about how to disable the RFID chip - hint: it involves the careless use of a hammer.

Edit to add: found the article here.

LOL! "Careless" :D

[ScottGem]

I was expecting the warrantless wire tapping by the NSA. I agree that was one of Bush's more blatant abuses. Where I disagree is that it infringed "our rights with technology advances". The same thing about the voting machines (and I did see parts of that HBO documentary).

My point here is that wire tapping and survellance has been going on for as long as there have been governments. I don't feel there is anymore infringment with technology. Its made it easier, but there have been wire taps as long as there have been wires going back to telegraphs. There have been voting irregularities as long as there has been voting.

Better examples might be use of EZ-Pass records to track people's movements, but as long as a legal warrant is used to get that info I don't have a problem with it.

Lets look at the RFID chip in a passport. I don't see a problem with it as long as I can use a reader to verify the info stored about me.

[KMSRyana]

It's the ease with which it's done now that infringed "our rights with technology advances" that bothers me. Should someone call me on my cell phone and they monitor (via satellite on my post 2001 cell phone) it violates the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act passed by Congress in the wake of the Watergate scandal. How easy it is compared to before is scary to me. I agree 100% that surveilance and voting irregularties have been going on far beyond modern times.

And forget governmental abuses for a minute. Your name, address, and birthdate (and cross your fingers they don't put your Social on it) can be picked up so easily. Currently many cars are stolen where the thief waits in his vehicle in a parking lot. When a victim gets in or out of their car the thief can capture the frequency transmitted from the remote to the vehicle, later simply sending it back to the car and opening it with no damage. Identity Theft is already out of control and poorly enforced by Law Enforcement in my opinion. Now imagine what it's going to be like when they can pick up someone's vitals by being within a few feet... scary, if you ask me.

BTW, Scott... I have read several stupid arguments here. I don't veiw this as an argument, just a discussion/debate from many sides and I do see this as a good discussion and value your opinion. :)

[Fr_Chuck]

According to the government the only info on the chip is exactly the same data on the passport, it is done to prevent faking or changing an existing passport, you can't change a name, birthdate or any material on the passport. When they run it on the machine, if the info does not match the written info, it will be considered a fake or fraud.

And if the chip is not working it will be considered an invalid passport from my understanding.

It is done to stop the use of fake or altered passports.

[ScottGem]

No arguments, just discussions. Frankly, I think Identity theft,while a very real problem is not as out of control as we have been led to believe. I also feel the dangers of things like those RFID tags may also be overblown. But then I'm an optimist.

[Fr_Chuck]

Scott is is all those conspiracy They are going to use those secret government space probes to tell all of our movements with those chips.

Next those chips ( told by the same people able) know those chips will contain all our info from blood type, to children's names and even know up to date bank account info, and someone just driving past you in a van with the right equipment will get all that info on their secret listening device in the van.

But I am sure that tin foil on their heads will protect them from all of those rays.

[mr.yet]

Why does our government need this information? They have our Birth Certificate, our social security number, the track all your transaction from the banks; they know who you are by the photo ID on your Driver License.

I don't like the idea that the government knows more about me than I do. They should be more accountable to the people who has put their trust in them and have failed to deliver.

Our government in my opinion has lost track of what our forefathers had in mind for our country. Our individual rights which every day are being taken away by the government.

Quote:

When, in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, having its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

The Federal Government in my opinion does not represent the people anymore. Who have absolute power over the government; they have made the people afraid of them.

If the Rfid chip only contain Vidal information like height, weight, birthday, age, Ok. But how will we know what is imprinted on that chip? Can we scan it to see the information, must likely not. It is under the control of who know who, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, secret information for them only.

We need to ask them to see this information before it in imprinted on the chip so that you can agree it is correct. The government should be accountable for their actions to the people.


God Bless America. It's people and freedom.
That's my opinion.

[NeedKarma]

And if the chip is not working it will be considered an invalid passport from my understanding.

Nope, read the Wired article.

[ScottGem]

Why does our government need this information? They have our Birth Certificate, our social security number, the track all your transaction from the banks; they know who you are by the photo ID on your Driver License.

I think you are missing some points here. You're right the government already has this information. But you are asking the wrong question. Its why does the government need the info, its how easily can they verify it. The point of including a RFID chip inside a passport is so that the agent reviewing the passport can make sure that the printed and encoded info match. It means the agent doesn't have to spend time typing in the info (as is done now). This means that lines move more quickly without sacrificing security.

I don't see this as a further invasion of privacy, but as a way making our lives easier. I think our privacy has been thouroughly invaded already.

[mr.yet]

My concern is How do we know what is imprinted on the chip, yes it would speed up the process going though the line.

I want to know what information they are obtaining, not just what they are telling you is on there.

NO, I don't trust the government, never have and never will.

[NeedKarma]

Scott,

The issue about the RFID chips has to do with hacking and the possible increased proliferation of the readers. Originally if I wanted to steal your passport info I needed to physically get your passport from you. Now all I need is a reader near where passports of waiting to be shown. That example is more far-fetched than this one: manufacturers are testing installing RFIDs directly into their products versus the packaging. (example 1 and another source and example 2). They can decide where to put readers to capture the info the RFIDS have and track you. Or hackers will eventually create their own readers and sell to the highest bidder - you can be broadcasting your personal info at all times not knowing who is listening and saving the data.

[ScottGem]

My concern is How do we know what is imprinted on the chip, yes it would speed up the process going though the line.

I want to know what information they are obtaining, not just what they are telling you is on there.

As I said earlier you can use a reader. But if you are going to be that paranoid that you will assume that info that only the government can read is being encoded, nothing will convince you otherwise.

I'm not saying that you should trust the government implicitly. But the issue is more that of something beyond your control. If the government is going to encode the chips with info that will only show up on their readers, then there is nothing you can do about it, but buy an island and move there.

[NeedKarma]

As I said earlier you can use a reader.

I don't believe the readers will be available to the general public. Haven't seen any mention of that of the IT news about RFID.