[snotbubble]

Would like advice from someone of Baptist belief:

I grew up with a non religious mother (who claims to be catholic but doesn't know much about the bible let alone try to follow it) and an absent atheist father. Any religious knowledge came from Sunday school when I would stay with my grandmother on the weekends while my mom worked. Once I became old enough to stay home alone, I was no longer dropped off at grandma's, which meant no more church. I also never got my license, and could never just go on my own. So, I was never properly guided on what a proper healthy relationship looked like.

All I knew is that I wasn't supposed to have premarital sex. And at 16, my first boyfriend of 2 years convinced me that that meant I can do anything but sex itself. So I did regrettable things that I now know were wrong and sinful. I met my fiancé when I was 19, he is also a christian yet he had sex with his ex- girlfriend and lived with her. He was in a relationship with her when he pursued me. He also lived with his atheist mother who was a stripper, so it's understandable that he was misguided as well. Prior to dating him I had a standard that I would only date a virgin to make it easier to remain one myself but it was getting harder to find that as I got older. Anyway, I lost my virginity when I was drinking with him (which I didn't really do until I met him) and was too out of it to realize what was going on. I was very angry and resentful towards him and still am for doing this but for some reason stayed with him. And for some reason I stopped caring about even trying to be a virgin. So we were having sex for 3 years.

Then we got married in a courtroom for financial aid benefits so we could both stay in college (to be able to pay for it and not have to drop out to work full time so we wouldn't be homeless) we were originally planning on waiting until we graduated to get married. I said I was only doing it for this reason and that it didn't count as a real marriage and we were still planning a proper wedding under God.

So, we're both 23 now, together for 4 years. In the course of our relationship we have lived together the entire time because of the situations we were in (not having anywhere to live or anyone to take us in while we were still in school- not making enough money to live on our own yet) we moved to many dreadful living environments full of family drunks, drugs, physical abuse, and at one point we lived in a tent with our dog, which was actually the nicest living environment we had.

So we did the courtroom marriage so we could afford this house we now rent. We have decided to no longer have sex, which we should have never done. I'm just feeling very guilty for the way things just happened. Is it even okay for me to be living with him now even if we're not having sex? I feel like having premarital sex will somehow doom our marriage. That following god's plan will provide you with the best life and that I've already ruined it and can't take it back. I also worry that having sex with him may have made me choose him for the wrong reasons. If we would have just courted like I wish we had, would I still want to marry him? (I think so, but I'll never know) I know God forgives but I still just feel horrible and resentful.

So here are my questions:
1. what should we do after premarital sex? (other than stop doing it)
2. Is it wrong that I live with him now?
3. What should we do to properly prepare for a spiritual marriage?
4. Under what circumstances would a pastor refuse to marry a couple, other than the fact that they must both be christian?
5. What are the guidelines for a religious baptist wedding? What makes a wedding non- secular?

[justcurious55]

Do you go to church now? Have you discussed it with your current pastor? I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong here, but I think many pastors, priests, religious leaders in general offer counseling, including pre-marital and marital counseling.

[Wondergirl]

JustCurious is correct. Many priests/ministers/pastors of all faiths will offer counseling, especially premarital counseling. Please find a Baptist minister in your conference and seek his guidance, especially to resolve your confusion/questions about premarital sex and your feelings about this young man.

[Wondergirl]

snotbubble finds this helpful : we're trying to attend a church down the street but can't find any info on when their services start. He thinks we should show up at 10am, doesn't the average church start earlier than that?

My dad's church back home has two services at 8 a.m. and at 11 a.m. with Sunday school and Bible class in between. Smaller churches may have a service at 10 a.m. or even at 9 a.m. with Sunday School afterwards. My chiropractor attends a church that has three-hour services on Sunday morning. Many churches have services during a weekday evening for people who were away on the weekend or who don't like to get up early. Churches also have mid-week services during Advent and Lent. So, you see, Sunday at 10 a.m. is not the norm.

Most churches, even small ones, have a Web site. Have you checked for one for this church? Also, most churches have a sign of some kind in front that shows the name of the church, the name of the minister/priest, and the service times. Have you looked for this in front of this church when you drive by? Many churches have an office with at least voice mail, so call Directory Assistance and give the name of the town and the church's denomination and general location in order to get the number. If all else fails, call the local library's reference department to get the church's information.

[dwashbur]

1. what should we do after premarital sex? (other than stop doing it)

Sincerely ask forgiveness, realize you have it, and get on with life. There's nothing more horrible about premarital sex than any other sin, and I can tell you from experience that if you accept God's forgiveness then it WON'T haunt you. I made mistakes before I was married, and I have now been with the most wonderful woman in the world for 30 years and it just keeps getting better. Why? Because she knows that God forgave me, therefore so did she. Everybody sins, and as long as you're breathing there's nothing beyond fixing.

2. Is it wrong that I live with him now?

What's the nature of the relationship? Where do you see it going? Are you planning to be together for the rest of your lives? If you married in a civil ceremony and you're both serious about being committed to each other, forsaking all others and all the rest, then you're married.

3. What should we do to properly prepare for a spiritual marriage?

What do you consider a "spiritual marriage"? In God's eyes, and frankly in most Baptist traditions (I grew up in several) it means exactly what you've described: pledging yourselves to each other, whether before a judge or a minister really doesn't matter. God goes by what's in your hearts. That's why I'm asking all those questions.

4. Under what circumstances would a pastor refuse to marry a couple, other than the fact that they must both be christian?

Many don't even have that requirement.

5. What are the guidelines for a religious baptist wedding? What makes a wedding non- secular?

There are roughly 21,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 etc. varieties of Baptist. Which one do you have in mind?

Truthfully, the only thing that makes a wedding "secular" or "non-secular" is, again, what's in your hearts. If you're really committed to each other, if you're serious about this, and you have the license and a legal marriage, frankly, you're married. There's no good reason why you should have stopped having sex, because it's marital and there's nothing wrong with it. If the Baptists in your background told you something else, you need to find a different breed of Baptist. Remember that man looks on the outward, God looks on the heart. That's where it's all going to take place, and where your marriage is going to survive or be broken.

Honestly, I think you're beating yourself and him up for no good reason. Have you made mistakes? Sure. Can you get beyond them? That's up to you. If you've asked him, God has already forgiven you. Put all that behind you and figure out where the relationship is going from here. If you really intend to stay together in marriage, there's no reason why you shouldn't be living like it now. You've got the license, you've (presumably) got the commitment, so regardless of what's in your past, you have God's blessing in your marriage.

Now, if you don't intend to stay together, if it's just a convenience thing and as quick as you finish school you intend to go look for something else, that's another matter. But that's not the vibe I get from you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[jakester]

snotbubble - this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth but something in this quote of yours makes me think you may be overlooking something significant:

"So, we're both 23 now, together for 4 years. In the course of our relationship we have lived together the entire time because of the situations we were in (not having anywhere to live or anyone to take us in while we were still in school- not making enough money to live on our own yet) we moved to many dreadful living environments full of family drunks, drugs, physical abuse, and at one point we lived in a tent with our dog, which was actually the nicest living environment we had."

When I consider what you and your HUSBAND have gone through TOGETHER, I am amazed at how those events have not torn you apart. Couples break up for far less than what you have gone through. In your mind you may not be married but anyone looking at you from the outside (including myself) would be convinced of your commitment to each other.

Like dwash, I think you are you being way too critical of yourself and your husband. I think he is your husband since by law you are married. I don't think marrying in a church makes you any more married than marrying outside of the church…the commitment starts in your hearts.

If I may say so, I think you may be suffering from a bit of religious neuroticism. I know it all too well because I went through it. I didn't have a very fruitful childhood and struggled my way through to adulthood. I've learned that the events of my young life set in motion a whole host of thoughts about life, God, and people that colored my perception. I was critical of myself and others at every infraction and I would shudder as I awaited the crushing hand of God. I began to learn that my self-hatred was a psychological game that I played with myself akin to a self-flogging—if I suffered a little, maybe God would take pity on me. But that's really not good for me or you and I don't believe it carries any favor with God because it is self-pride masked as religious piety.

I think that this kind of self-pride is a protective wall that I built up because deep down I wondered if God was really my friend…could I trust him and did he really love me? People who grow up in a loving and nurturing environment learn to trust God and others much more easily and readily than those who were abandoned or rejected at critical points in life. That is certainly true of me and it may be true for you as well. Feelings of abandonment and rejection lend themselves very well to being overly critical and fearful of God and others.

I strongly encourage you to take an inventory of your own heart and mind and try to understand how you look at God and others: are you afraid of him or do you believe that he loves you? When you do wrong, is it your instinct to degrade and hate yourself? When others do wrong, are you quick to point out their sins? As much as I would like to answer the questions you asked (all 5 of them, neatly ordered and exact), I don't think that just answering those questions will bring you into greater clarity of what your real issues may be. I'd be happy to talk more about what I have written.

I hope you are not offended by what I have said here because my words are from my heart and are not meant to condemn you but to help you.

[WOWgrl90]

I struggled with premarital sex as well. Thank goodness I only had sex with one man, and am now married to him.
Stopping premarital sex is a biggie. I don't see anything wrong with living with him, but it does pose a lot of temptation…(believe me, I know!)
To prepare for marriage spiritually, I recommend praying together and going to premarital counseling from a pastor and pastor's wife.
We had a couple pastor's turn us down because we were living together. So that could be an issue.
Most weddings are separated by protestant, and catholic weddings. So your wedding would be the same as any other protestant wedding, regardless of denomination.

[Cindersarah]

Okay, my thoughts on the subject. I've skimmed previous answers, but I may end up highlighting things people have said.

I'm a pastor's daughter, and have gone to quite a few different denominational churches, so this is just what I've gathered to be correct in MY MIND. If any of this strikes a bad chord with you, than ignore it! If God's not saying it's right for you, than it's not right for you!

So you got married in a courtroom, I'll focus on that first. Legally, you are married, so before God you are married. It may have not been in front of a Pastor, but if you still want to have a wedding with a pastor, it'd be more like renewing your vows if anything. This can be very special to a couple, especially if you feel like you got married for the wrong reasons in the first place.

I'm going to stress something someone else said. Pasteral Counseling is the BEST thing for you! Find a pastor you feel both of you can share with, and go for it! Especially if you feel anger towards your hubby because of certain past experiences. Counseling will help you address past issues and help guide your path to a healthier relationship.

I'll address the premarital sex bit now. You have acknowledged how wrong it was, and have asked for forgiveness. YAYYY! I'm glad you asked for forgiveness, since that means you have no need to wallow in shame anymore. God has forgiven you. (Your one comment about finding a virgin only is something I want to address as a sidenote. If you find someone who's a christian and may not be a virgin anymore, but is strong in their faith now... it means you should forgive them as God forgave them. If it feels wrong to you, than talk to the person, pray about it. If you feel you don't love the person enough to overlook their past sins, it might not be the right relationship for you.)

But I think you are married now, and therefore can have sex with your husband. HOWEVER!! That is MY thinking. If you still feel wrong about it, then perhaps something is wrong in your heart about it, and you should address that first.

But congrats on still wanting to make the relationship work. So many people these days think that divorce is the answer...

[Fr_Chuck]

So here are my questions:
1. what should we do after premarital sex? (other than stop doing it)
2. Is it wrong that I live with him now?
3. What should we do to properly prepare for a spiritual marriage?
4. Under what circumstances would a pastor refuse to marry a couple, other than the fact that they must both be christian?
5. What are the guidelines for a religious baptist wedding? What makes a wedding non- secular?[/QUOTE]

1. there is not reason not to have sex NOW, you are married, baptist accept a courthouse wedding and could and would not marry you again, they may bless the union but that could be done by the pastor in his home, no need for anything special.
You have suffered for no reason trying not to have sex now.

2. no you are husband and wife and it is perfectly fine and acceptable to have sex now

You are already married, only one marriage license and that is though the court. As noted the pastor may bless the union at this point. After that a Baptist pastor will want you both to be baptised, ( the baptist does not accept a Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican or other baptism that is not immersion.

3. Again you are already married, and at this point you follow the bible on loving each other as Christ loves the church

4. again you are really confused on marriage, you know in bible times there was no preacher, no marriage license, the fathers of the bride and groom made a business deal normally when they were young, and often they may not have even meet before the wedding.


Accept the fact you are now married, you are husband and wife, you don't need anything else, besides each of you accepting Christ and living a God fearing life.