[_Candy_]

I have discovered that, in my old age, I have developed an intolerance for toddlers who cry whenever their parents are out of sight... Case in point: A year and a half ago my 2 ½ year old grandson started throwing a MAJOR fit... (and when he throws a fit you would think he screams at the top of his lungs, hits things... including whatever adult is nearby, throws himself on the floor and cries as if he had just been beaten or something.) whenever his mother or father (my son) would leave the room and not take him with them. They can't even go to the bathroom without it turning into a catastrophe.

I know that, in most cases, the reason a child does that is because during their first months of life their parents didn't expose them to “outsiders”... keeping the baby to themselves which resulted in the child becoming overly attached. But in that's not the case with my grandson. Both of his parents worked... (his mother is a teacher and only took off a couple of months for maternity leave)... and his other grandmother and myself took turns babysitting. And this past year he has been attending a Day Care/Preschool during the day. Not once during his 2 ½ years did his parents ever abandon him... shut him away in his bedroom for long periods, etc. And it's not just my grandson. My roommate's 1 year old granddaughter does the same thing (only worse... including pulling her hair out, hitting herself and others and destroying whatever she can get her hands on at the time... she has a very violent temper for a 1 year old).

My kids never acted like that. I wouldn't have stood for it.. . (but then I believed... and still do... in the antiquated concept of discipline. A temper tantrum didn't result in them getting their way... it resulted in serious time-outs and when they were older... a spanking.) . It seems that both my roommate's daughter and my son and daughter-in-law feel that it is easier to just give in to the child's demands than to deal with the loud (and sometimes destructive) tantrums. Maybe I'm old fashioned... and maybe I'm wrong... but I wasn't raised that way and I didn't raise my kids that way. I thought it would be unfair to them to let them think that they were entitled to get whatever they wanted... when they wanted it... that that was the way life was. I believed it would set them up to fail because life isn't even close to being like that. It's the way my parents raised me and I feel they did a heck of a job (especially since I was a handful once I became a teenager... hehehe). And it's the way I raised my kids and they didn't complain... (at least not to my face... hehehe). Were my parents and myself wrong?

This intolerance for... what I see as spoiled children... (the ones that go into the “screaming mimis” in the store... destroy your house and peace and quiet when they visit... cause everyone in the house to become stressed to the max... hit, bite, etc. the adults who say that horrible “N” word... no... )... has definitely become more intense the older I've gotten (as has my patience... hehehe)... to the point that I leave my house when my roommate's granddaughter visits or she is babysitting... and I don't look forward to spending time with my own grandson (which I should be thoroughly enjoying). Especially since my son and daughter in law are currently attempting (and failing miserably) to potty train him (he is too stubborn and has a short temper fuse.). So, unless I want to end up being seen by my roommate's daughter and granddaughter as the grumpy old lady who lives in her bedroom with the door shut and wearing earplugs... or become an absentee grandmother (when I only live 12 miles from them)... I need to find out if I am in the wrong for feeling the way I do and if I am... fix it. That's problem number 1.

Problem number 2 stems from the problem number 1. Believing the way I do about disciplining bad behavior early (and I'm not talking about beating the kid... only using time-outs and “gentle” spankings... just enough to get their attention like my parents did me... and I deserved every spanking I got... believe me... hehehe)... teaching your children to respect adults and their property and instilling the knowledge of right and wrong makes it difficult for me to sit silently by and watch my daughter-in-law do nothing to correct my grandson's bad behavior. I think she thinks he will grow out of it... or that he is too young to understand. But that 2 ½ year old is smarter than his mommy, daddy and myself put together. It's scary. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing. You can see it in his eyes. I vowed when my son got married that I would NOT be one of those mother-in-laws who stuck her nose into the kids business... offered advice and get offended when it was not heeded and pushed her opinions, perceptions and ideas on the young couple. And ever since my grandson was born I have very careful not to be the kind of grandmother who thinks she “knows it all” because she had kids. I hated my mother-in-law when she was like that (and would get aggravated when my own mother did it, too). But... as time goes on... I'm finding it harder and harder to keep my mouth shut. My daughter-in-law is not the kind of person who takes... even the most innocent constructive criticism.. well. If someone tells her she is doing something wrong she takes it as a personal attack. So, basically, it wouldn't really do any good if I did open my mouth.

So Problem number 1 and 2 come down to the same question... basically. Am I wrong in my beliefs (based on the way I was raised and raised my kids)? And if so... how do I change 60 years worth of “training”? If I am not wrong... how do I become thicker skinned... (if that's the right vernacular)... so I'm more tolerant of this kind of behavior in the children around me? And should I continue to keep my mouth shut and just pray that when my grandson gets older the lack of discipline in his formative years doesn't end up with him becoming a juvenile delinquent and adult criminal? If the answer to the last question is yes... how do I do that?

[Kitkat22]

A spanking never hurt mine. Spanking a child and beating or abusing a child is very different.

A good swat on the backside sometimes get better results than time out.

My opinion.

[Jake2008]

I share your frustration, and agree with most of what you have said.

I happen to be the house in the middle of two other houses. One young mother has three kids, the other house, also three kids.

The one to my right, those kids visit often, and tag along when mom comes over for coffee. I thoroughly enjoy their company. They are polite, respectful, and never have they acted out of line. They ask if they can watch TV, go out in the yard with the dog, etc. I compliment their mother every chance I get for how she has raised them.

The other side is quite the opposite. They are rude, aggressive, demanding, messy. They feel free to use, do, whatever in my home, without my permission. I actually do not have them in anymore. At a family/friend gathering, they were invited and ruined the party, which was a barbque outside. Racing, playing rough, and generally disregarding anybody in their way which included adults, other children, babies, and dogs.

But they have it all. Every toy, huge celebrations for birthdays, every interest satisfied in lessons in any instrument, sport, etc. and they enjoy (but don't care for) a myriad of animals from birds to rodents to dogs and cats. They appreciate nothing.

To me, the above illustrates what you have said. These children either have too much, or too little parenting. I find the kids with the most stuff, have the worst behaviour, the kids who earn their own stuff with chores and paper routes for example, have the best attitude and they are happier children. Why people choose to pacify children, rather than discipline them is beyond me.

It seems sometimes that parents are afraid to parent. Or maybe they are just too tired, or stressed, or lives are so full of just getting by, that nobody stops to do the real meat and potatoes of teaching discipline, good manners, and right from wrong in a lot of cases.

The only thing you can do, is control what you can in your own home. If your grandchild starts with the hissy fit, tell him to get over it in five minutes, or he doesn't go to the park. Stick to simple rules, with simple consequences, and your time with him will be so much more enjoyable.

I don't have any grandchildren yet, but, I would do as I'm suggesting you do in your own home. I would expect them to follow my rules, or their parents would be picking them up pronto.

[QLP]

I believe every parent has the right to use spanking if done sensibly. However I don't feel it is a neccessity. I didn't spank mine, although I did discipline them and they were well behaved children and are lovely adults now. So on that point why not agree to differ, spanking per se isn't the issue but rather the bigger picture of expectations regarding behaviour.

Have you tried distracting the child when his parents leave the room? Or better still before they do. It can be very difficult not to cross the line of implying critiscism to young parents, and you can bet if they take it really easily they are actually somewhat lacking in confidence in their own parenting skills but don't want to admit it. So try and have some positive strategies in hand before trouble arises. Maybe say to the parents, 'I don't want the grandson to be distressed when left with me, so can we work on this together, maybe get him settled listening to a story with me or watching a DVD with me before you leave the room.' Word it so that you are putting the child's welfare at the heart of the question and any hint of judgement is absent. Also try to work with the parents at building up the separation slowly. So they tell the child they will be back in 2 minutes, and they make sure they are, then build it up from there. Of course you can only suggest they do this but if you word it as being to prevent the child being upset too long rather than you they might just take it on board.

As far as giving parental advice is concerned, one of the best ways to confer it is by example. So let them see you patiently explaining to the child what is expected, telling him when his behaviour is unacceptable, and using sanctions such as Jake suggested with the stop screaming or no park. If the parents don't like something you do, try putting the ball in their court by asking them how they would have preferred you to handle it - might get them thinking at least.

I really dislike seeing children with a complete lack of discipline, not only is it inconsiderate to those around them, but is really not good for the children themselves. However, there is more than one way to discipline a child effectively. You are a wise woman I'm sure so just get a little creative in helping the parents see that it is OK to have different approaches as long as you actually do something that works.

I think the reason you are feeling so intolerant for the noise etc is that you feel powerless to step in. Rather like having to listen to a radio that is stuck on full volume with a broken knob - it is going to make you want to launch said radio out of the window, whereas normally you would simply turn it down. So do try and find ways to step in gently without upsetting the apple cart too much, I'm sure your tolerance levels will grow once you find you have some options to take a little control in your own home. If you are clever enough to take control while letting the parents think they are doing so, by making gentle suggestions worded so that you are asking for their feedback you can keep everybody reasonably happy.

With luck maybe your roommate will also pick up a few tips.

[_Candy_]

Thank you.

[answerme_tender]

Candy I read and re-read you article and laughed. You sound like a very intelligent,out going woman. YOu know exactly what needs to be done,but it still comes down to your house your rules and if the grown ups can't put up with that, then maybe we should use the spoon on their backsides!!

[Wondergirl]

I had a single-mom client who came to me with problems that didn't include her 2-1/2 y/o daughter, but the daughter soon became the focus of counseling. Livy ruled the roost, because Mom felt she had to "negotiate" with Livy. "Negotiate" meant giving Livy anything she wanted so she didn't throw a fit.

Livy wanted pb&j on white for lunch, so Mom made a sandwich. Livy decided she didn't want white bread after all, so Mom remade the sandwich with wheat (and ate the white). Livy decided she really wanted chicken noodle soup, so Mom wrapped up the sandwich (or ate it herself) and heated up chicken noodle soup. After two bites, Livy decided she wanted to get down and play instead, so the soup went into the refrigerator (or Mom ate it).

When I questioned the mom as to why she gave Livy such a wide latitude, she said she didn't want Livy to get upset and stop loving her, plus it was easier to give in than to argue. Like Candy said about the 2-1/2 y/o, Livy knew EXACTLY what she was doing.

Livy's mom and I talked about giving Livy limited choices and about how to deal with Livy's refusals to conform and the resulting unhappiness. At the time, Dr. Thomas Phelan's 1-2-3 Magic (time-out) strategy of child management was very much in vogue (and he had an office in the same Chicago suburb as Livy and her mom), so we used that on Livy with good results. The only problem was that Livy's mom couldn't be consistent.

No, they don't grow out of it. Years went by, and one day I received a phone call from Livy's mom. "Livy's 13 now, and I can't do a thing with her. Could you help me please?"

The best and probably only thing you can do is be a good and consistent disciplinarian in your own home. And pray a lot.