[mightybee]

The so called expert breeder sold me an inbread dog. If breeder is responsible why don't they wait before they get the big cash payout for a puppy and spay or nuter the animal themselves. If that is in fact your concern. This woman has asked a legitimate question and all you seem to do is talk down to her. Shame on you.

[Alty]

The so called expert breeder sold me an inbread dog. If breeder is responsable why don't they wait before they get the big cash payout for a puppy and spay or nuter the animal themselves. If that is in fact your concern. This woman has asked a legitimate question and all you seem to do is talk down to her. shame on you.

If a breeder sold you an inbred dog, congrats, you bought your dog from someone like the person that started this thread.

Just because someone calls themselves a breeder, doesn't mean they are. Just because someone has many dogs on their property, or farm, and breeds them, doesn't mean they're doing the genetic testing, or any of the things they need to do to breed responsibly. You bought your dog from a backyard breeder, or puppymill, not a legit breeder.

You read what I wrote and you say shame on me? That's your right, your opinion. I don't much care what uninformed people think about me and my opinion on responsible breeding.

The only ones suffering when uneducated people breed, is the dogs. That's whose side I'm on. That's who I speak for. Greedy people that only want to make money off their animals, but don't want to put the time, effort, and money into it. They're not my concern, and if they're feelings get hurt because I tell them the truth. So be it. Hopefully some of what I say sinks in and they decide to let their poor dogs be pets, not puppy machines for income.

Now, this is an old thread, so I'm closing it. If you want to discuss this matter further, please start your own thread.

Old thread closed.

[ScottGem]

First its not a good idea to piggyback your question on someone else's. This can lead to confusion. You should start a new thread. So I've moved your question to its own thread.

Please take time to learn how to use this site before posting. It looks like you gave disagree ratings on several posts without understanding what you were doing.

[Alty]

Scott, did you mean to close the thread? I think that this topic does need to be discussed, but if you meant to move it and close it, I won't reopen without your approval.

Just asking. :)

[ScottGem]

Scott, did you mean to close the thread? I think that this topic does need to be discussed, but if you meant to move it and close it, I won't reopen without your approval.

Just asking. :)

Meant to close the one this was piggybacked on, reopened.

[Alty]

The so called expert breeder sold me an inbread dog. If breeder is responsable why don't they wait before they get the big cash payout for a puppy and spay or nuter the animal themselves. If that is in fact your concern. This woman has asked a legitimate question and all you seem to do is talk down to her. shame on you.

Since this thread is now current and open, I will respond to this.

If someone sold you an inbred dog (which you wouldn't know unless they told you) then this person isn't a breeder. Real breeders only breed the best of the best, they do genetic testing and they never inbreed their animals. The people that get these puppies are screened, are made to sign a contract, and, if there are ever any issues with the puppy, a real breeder will take that puppy back.

You want a breeder to spay or neuter the dog before adopting them out? So you're willing to wait 6 months to get a puppy? That's not the norm. Most people want the puppy while it's still young, cute, little. A puppy should not be put up for adoption until it's at least 8 weeks of age. Most breeders wait 4 weeks longer then that, 12 weeks of age. At that age, the puppy is too young to spay or neuter. Many vets will not perform this operation until the puppy is 6 months of age. Some do it younger, but that's the average.

So you expect the breeder to not only pay for genetic testing, food, shots, but also for the spay/neuter? Are you willing to pay upwards of $5000 for a dog simply because you're either too lazy or too cheap to spay or neuter it yourself?

You may think I was harsh to the person that bred their dachshund before knowing what was involved in breeding, but you've obviously never seen what I have. Spend one day in your local SPCA, hold the dogs (some of them puppies) while they are put to sleep, because people that have no business breeding their dogs, don't give a damn about anything but themselves and what they want.

Don't play the dead dog game. For every backyard breeder and puppymill dog that has a litter, 5 dogs or more are put to death. Do the math. It will shock you.

[Alty]

mightybee; Again reading what you want why do breeders sell puppies that are not fixed? Why don't you get on your little soap box on the breeders. Signing a paper to spay a dog is ridiculous. They should just do it.

This was left as a comment on one of my posts, that and three disagrees afterwards.

I will suggest that you read the rules of this site before repping anyone. Disagrees are for factually incorrect information only. My posts were far from inaccurate. If you disagree with me, that's your right, and I'd be more then willing to listen to what you have to say. Just respond on the thread.

As for your suggestion that breeders spay/neuter before adotping out their pups, I responded to that above. Please read it and if you have anything to add, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

I'm more then willing to discuss this, but I suggest you drop the attitude at the door, read what I've written, tell me what exactly you have a problem with.

I find you to be a bit of a contradiction. You demand that breeders spay/neuter their pups before adoption, that they have the highest quality pets, but you support backyard breeders and puppymills? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Aurora_Bell]

I also just wanted to add that most reputable breeders don't make "big cash payouts". In fact most reputable breeders barely come out even. Most times they aren't breeding dogs to make money, they are doing it for the love of the blood line.

[Alty]

I also just wanted to add that most reputable breeders don't make "big cash payouts". In fact most reputable breeders barely come out even. Most times they aren't breeding dogs to make money, they are doing it for the love of the blood line.

Exactly.

What the average person doesn't realize is the cost involved in breeding responsibly. There's more to it then putting a male and female dog together.

A breeder may charge upwards of $2500 for one of their puppies, but they're not recouping the money they spent to breed, not by a long shot.

They love the breed, want to continue to breed, make sure it stays clean, healthy.

The people like the original poster to the thread this was moved from, only breed for money, for greed. They'll sell their puppies for only slightly less then a well bred puppy, but no guarantees. A legit breeder will make sure the puppy is up to date on its shots, healthy, and if there's ever a problem, the breeder will take the puppy back. Background checks done on the people adopting. Contract to make sure these people don't breed the puppy they're adopting, etc. etc.

A lot goes into breeding. A lot more then most people know.

[Aurora_Bell]

Right. It still says I have to spread the rep, but I couldn't agree more Alty. Some people just don't realize the cost in reputable breeding. Like you said, it's not just sticking two dogs together and hoping for the best.

[shazamataz]

Mightybee - can you please tell me what you mean by inbred?
How close were the relations in the dogs pedigree and have you asked the breeder about this?

Some breeders will do what is called 'line breeding' where often grandparents, or even parents are related.
They do this to strengthen a certain trait in the dogs.
It's a tricky business but I will try to explain...

You have a male with a fantastic temperament, so you breed it to a b*tch that is slightly timid.
All of the puppies produced also have great temperaments.

You then breed the same female to a different male, and all of the puppies have not so good temperaments...

Over time you realise that the good temperament is a dominant feature in the male you used originally.
So you take one of his puppies, and breed it to another dog, producing more puppies.

Then by the third generation the original males temperament has become a little diluted and the pups are not as bold as they were originally. So you breed 2 of his grandchildren together to strengthen that great temperament you have been looking for.

Now there are right and wrong ways to do it.
If they are both DIRECTLY related, meaning coming from the same dogs, then yes, it's probably not the best idea, but if the only common factor is that original male (meaning different b*tches were used) then it can be very beneficial.

In regards to spaying and neutering before being sold. I believe dogs shouldn't be desexed before 6 months of age.
There is no way breeders are going to keep a whole litter of puppies until they are 6 months old, plus, no-one would want to buy an older pup.
All that does is make people want to buy the cute little sickly puppy from the pet store down the road.

My mum uses desexing contracts, and I will be as well. We both have breeds that are honestly, hard to sell as adults.