[Levitt]

I am a real estate agent, and my office took an application for an apartment on May 12. The landlord prepared the lease on May 17, and we faxed it to the guarantor on the May19. We received the lease back on May 27, and the tenant agreed to take legal possession of the apartment for June 1. However, the landlord wants to charge the client beginning May 1.

I told him that it is illegal for him to backdate the lease, and it is illegal for me, as an agent to participate in a transaction of this nature.

When I told him this, he responded saying, "we can all learn something new, so show me where the law prohibits his backdating the lease, assuming that the tenant agrees."

I would not only like to show him where the law says that he cannot backdate the lease, but also that I am not permitted to be party to this.

His is paying our commission, and has determined to discount our fee if I fail to prove to him that he is in violation of the law. My question is, is there such a law, what is my legal obligation as an agent, and can you tell me where I can obtain the information that I need to refute the landlord's action.

[ballengerb1]

It is fraud for both you and he to back date a legal document. The tenant can only sign and date the actual date but he can agree to pay for an extra month. Check out the Theft Act of 1968 or the Forgery Act of 1912, might only apply to UK.

[AK lawyer]

I

... might only apply to UK.

You think?

FYI, British statutes have not applied in New York state for a while now.

[ballengerb1]

Not sure where the OP is located. Many posts are from the USA but tons lately from the UK. The two laws I posted are for the UK. You may have better access to USA law books so feel free to post one. I think this will apply in the USA http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...8----000-.html

[AK lawyer]

Not sure where the OP is located. Many posts are from the USA but tons lately from the UK. The two laws I posted are for the UK. You may have better access to USA law books so feel free to post one. I think this will apply in the USA United States Code: Title 18,1038. False information and hoaxes | LII / Legal Information Institute

I'm reading the title of the thread:

"backdating a new real estate lease nys"

"nys" suggests New York to me. You cited U.S. Code. I believe state law would apply, not Federal law.

In any case, I'm not exactly sure what is being contemplated.

... the tenant agreed to take legal possession of the apartment for June 1.

...
he responded saying, "we can all learn something new, so show me where the law prohibits his backdating the lease, assuming that the tenant agrees."
...

If the tenant agrees to pay from May 1, who is being defrauded? The guarantor?

On the other hand, why would the tenant agree to pay for a month in which he/she/it apparently didn't have possession of the premises?

[Fr_Chuck]

First was someone else living in it on May 1st

But since they only applied on the 12, it would not even be possible to rent it before. Tell them that you will have no part of it, and that you could not risk your license to do fraud to anyone.

If you lose their business, great, if he is ready to cheat them on signing the lease, what else will he try to do

[ballengerb1]

Levitt was asking for a law hw could show his client that says you can't backdate a doucment , or in this case, a lease. That is all I have been trying to do is give him a law. Good catch on nys so why all the replies with no nys laws quotes from you, do I have to do all the work here? LOL:D

http://www.lemonlawclaims.com/new_yo...ce_statute.htm

[excon]

Hello Levitt:

The basis for the illegal act of unilaterally changing the terms of a contract can be found in contract law.

I'd tell him that you are not an attorney, and you are not going to do HIS legal work for him. Your job is to find him a tenant, and you did. He's obligated to pay your commission now, even if he screws up the deal, which it looks like he's trying to do. If he wants PROOF how contract law works, tell him that if he refuses to pay your commission, you'll sue him, the judge will uphold your contract, and most likely make him pay your attorney's fees too. THAT is how contract law works.

I would do this in a certified letter, followed up by regular mail. And, then I'd sue his cheating lying butt.

excon

[AK lawyer]

Levitt was asking for a law hw could show his client that says you can't backdate a doucment , or in this case, a lease. That is all I have been trying to do is give him a law. Good catch on nys so why all the replies with no nys laws quotes from you, do I have to do all the work here? LOL:D

NEW YORK DECEPTIVE PRACTICE STATutes and fraud laws

I was reluctant to spend the time finding a statue which states the obvious: one is prohibited from fraudulently altering a lease, especially since the OP never clairified the issue. I don't know if OP is talking about backdating it with the full knowledge and consent of all involved ("assuming that the tenant agrees." ), and if so, why would they all want to do that.

[ballengerb1]

I agree that using a back date is obviously fraudulent but his client wanted to see it in writing. Just trying to help him get to that point.

[excon]

I agree that using a back date is obviously fraudulent but his client wanted to see it in writing. Just trying to help him get to that point.

Hello again, b:

Any businessman who intrinsically doesn't get that you can't arbitrarily change a contract, isn't going to believe it, even if he's shown in writing. He needs to experience it firsthand. That's why I think HE should NOT be accommodated. Instead, he should be sued for breach of contract.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

It is like saying show me where it specificly says you can't change the price tags on items in a store, there is no specific law that says you can't, it is just shop lifting or theft that covers it.

A contract is valid on the date it is signed, by contract law, not the day before it is signed. Merely both parties agreeing to break the law does not make it legal.

With that, actually doing it would really void the lease, since a contract done illegally would not be valid if contested.

Remember if he is being so bad now, what will he be like latter,

[AK lawyer]

... merely both parties agreeing to break the law does not make it legal.
...

I hate to beat a dead horse, but incorrect.

If both parties agree to change a contract, absent some specific law to the contrary, you have a validly modified contract. And modifying a contract is not per se breaking the law.

To take your example:
I see an item in the store I would like to buy. The price tag says "$9.98". I take it to the store owner and say "I want to buy this, but I only want to pay $5.00. Would it be all right with you if I change the price tag to $5.00 and buy it at that amount?" The owner agrees, I change the tag and purchase it for $5.00. Have I done anything wrong?

[excon]

If the tenant agrees to pay from May 1, who is being defrauded? The guarantor

Hello again, lawyer:

If the above were so, I wouldn't disagree. But, I see NOTHING to indicate that it is. Certainly, there's no advantage for the tenant doing so, but there's PLENTY of advantage for the landlord doing it.

Therefore, my presumption is that the landlord wants to get over on his tenant. You think the decision might be mutual. Why?

excon

[ballengerb1]

I think we have two issues going on here. It started with back dating a lease which I believe is not legal. Now we are also talking about an extra months rent, different issue. The owner can specify in the lease when the payments start accuring but the date of his signature and the lessee still should be the true date of signing. Back dating is illegal but charging for an extra month's rent is negotiable and can be done if both sides agree.