[Bubbleboy]

Hello Folks,

I come to you for advise and help. We've just recently moved into our home, and have noticed the banging and pining sounds from the water pipes. I bought a water pressure gauge earlier today and have noticed that the water coming in from the city is 90PSI +\- 5PSI.

The couple of questions I had are:

- Is there a type for a residential home that is of good quality and easy of 'repair/maintainence'

- Would it be good to also install a pressure gauge after the regulator or is this nono or a not needed?


TIA,

Bubbles

Hello Folks,

I come to you for advise and help. We've just recently moved into our home, and have noticed the banging and pining sounds from the water pipes. I bought a water pressure guage earlier today and have noticed that the water coming in from the city is 90PSI +\- 5PSI.

The couple of questions I had are:

- Is there a type for a residential home that is of good quality and easy of 'repair/maintainence'

- Would it be good to also install a pressure guage after the regulator or is this nono or a not needed?


TIA,

Bubbles

Would I need to also add a HW expansion tank? If so, I've seen people do a side mount where the tank is sideways. Question I had for this is, how does the tank fill with water if it's sideways? Won't there be a pocket of air stuck up top?

Thanks,
Bubbles

[KISS]

Any oil filled gage will work for a permanent installation. The oil dampens and spikes. You really don't need one before the regulator.

Expansion tanks are just that, for expansion. They are a spring loaded tank and can work in any position. They are not a bladder tank used to increase pressure. An expansion tank would be placed on the cold water, typically anywhere but at the input of the water heater.

Expansion tanks are worthwhile. They will typically come into play when the hot water in the tank cools.

PRV example: http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/W...9/5731/Cat/189

Note that this one contains a strainer which isn't a bad idea.

[jlisenbe]

KSS, isn't that a PRV you have linked to?

I would think this is the expansion tank which BB has asked about.

Water Worker #G5 2 Gallon Expansion Tank

[KISS]

Yep. Changed the wording to "PRV example". Thanks. The subject asked for a PRV suggestion.

More info on expansion tank mounting: http://www.fastwaterheater.com/expansiontanks.htm

[Bubbleboy]

Thanks for the prompt responses guys!

@KSS The gauge is going after the PRV. But since you mention that you don't really need one, I'll skip it. I'm going to head out and buy a PRV tomorrow. Any other suggestions for my work ahead? Tips/Ideas/What not to do?

Thanks,
Bubbles

[KISS]

Put a gauge after the PRV. It's necessary to know if the PRV failed and to adjust it.

You don't need to know the pressure before the regulator.

[Bubbleboy]

Any oil filled gage will work for a permanent installation. The oil dampens and spikes.

I'm guessing the plumber store would have something like that right?

Thanks,
Bubbles

[Milo Dolezal]

Most widely used residential regulator is Wilkins brand. However, other brands are equally good, like Cash and Braukmann brands. Pressure regulators are adjustable and come preset to 55 psi. Some regulators have 3/8" plug on its side where you screw in pressure gauge.

[jlisenbe]

You guys know more about this than I do, but won't he need to add an expansion tank adjacent to his HW heater once he has the PRV in place? The PRV will not allow water to flow out, so as water is heated, pressure will rise unless there is an expansion tank.

[KISS]

The tank can go anywhere convenient on the cold water line.

Water Heaters - Expansion Tanks

[speedball1]

Expansion tanks are just that, for expansion. They are a spring loaded tank and can work in any position. They are not a bladder tank used to increase pressure. An expansion tank would be placed on the cold water, typically anywhere but at the input of the water heater.

Kiss gave you one explanation of a expansion tank. Let me give you another, (see image). As you can see the tank isn't "spring l,oaded" and acts exactly like a bladder tank Yes! A pressure gage installed next tp the PRV would be handy but you can avoid the hassle of installing on by simply purchasing a hose bib pressure gage. (see image). Good luck, Tom

[Bubbleboy]

Once again, thank you all for your responses! Very much appreciate all the information you all have provided. There is one other thing that I need to ask.

@KSS - I saw your original post about the expansion tank, I will be purchasing one.

On the line where the water comes in from the city, the previous owner had a water softner installed (which they took with them). They had repatched the missing section of piping and I was wondering if it is possible to remove that patch and add the PRV and the expansion tank there?

A question about expansion tanks - I see people have them near the WH and some have them away (on the other side of the house) from the WH and was wondering if the cold/hot water mix reduces the life span of the rubber diaphram if placed right near the WH?

Cheers,
Bubbles

[Bubbleboy]

@Speedball1 - Thanks, I have one of those gauges. I'll skip that part.

Can someone recommend a good water expansion tank? (Something that will not breakdown too fast?) hehe.


Thanks,
Bubbles

[KISS]

Remember the tank goes on the cold water side, so next to the tank should not be an issue.

If the original owner had a water softener, then that purchase may be in the cards for you as well. Remember to get your water tested. High iron levels requires separate attention.

Since these items are plumbing specialties, the plumbing distributers don't want call backs they are a good source.

Here is just one tank. PlumbingSupply.com - Water heater thermal expansion tanks

The PRV should go before any fixtures. If you intend to replace easily later on, then a couple of unions and ball valves would be required.

[Bubbleboy]

Thanks KSS. I think I'm going to purchase the Watts u5blp-z3. They have one model that has a QC (Quick Connect) option. Is this an option worth looking into?


Cheers,
Bubbles

[speedball1]

You might want to glance at this:
Article: Where Can Expansion Tanks be Installed?

Expansion Tanks Help Prevent Pressure Increases Due to Thermal Expansion
An expansion tank prevents pressure increases due to thermal expansion of your water. As your water is heated from 50° F to 120° F, it expands by approximately 2%. If you have a "closed system" which means there is a back flow preventer or other device which prevents your water from flowing back into the water main, this will cause very rapid pressure increases in your plumbing system.

We often receive questions about expansion tanks and the most common questions we receive are:

Is the expansion tank required to be installed on the cold side?
Although expansion tanks are rated to be installed on the hot side, we strongly recommend that they be installed on the cold line, downstream of the shutoff valve.

Where should an expansion tank be installed in relation to the hot water heater?
Your expansion tank can be anywhere on your plumbing system and does not need to be installed in proximity to the water heater. It is most commonly installed using a "T" at the cold inlet to the water heater. But, functionally it can be installed anywhere on the cold inlet line.

Can the expansion tank be installed at any angle?
The expansion tank can be installed in any attitude. This will conflict with info that comes with any expansion tank you buy at a retail store. The installation instructions that come with retail expansion tanks say the tank must be installed in a hanging vertical position. Retail expansion tanks come with a "Saddle Fitting", which allows the installation into the system without any soldering, thereby making installation easier for the average homeowner. The saddle fitting is a device that clamps around the pipe and has female threads that will accept the expansion tank. A small hole is first drilled in the pipe, then the clamp is placed so the hole lines up with the expansion tank inlet. We do not recommend using such a fitting. They are unreliable, and allow placement of the expansion tank in the above mentioned vertical hanging position only.

We recommend using galvanized fittings or soldering the appropriate fittings into the system.

[Bubbleboy]

@Speedball1 - I read that article. I was just curious about how the effect (if any) of hot and cold water vs just cold water on the rubber diaphram if either would wear it down faster.

I went to the plumbing store and purchased the WATTS U5B Z3 PRV. (only model they had) The salesman said that this unit has a 'thermal bypass' on the unit already and that I would not need an expansion tank.

However, I saw this on the WATTS website for this model:

(Note: The bypass feature will not prevent the pressure relief valve from opening on the hot water supply system with pressure above 150psi (10.3 bar).)

Is the 'thermal bypass' feature enough? Would I still need to purchase an expansion tank?


Thanks,
Bubbles

[speedball1]

Is the 'thermal bypass' feature enough? Would I still need to purchase an expansion tank?

Hey Bubbles, Try it and see. Whadda you got ta lose?
You can always add a tank if necessary. Good luck, Tom

[KISS]

If your doing plumbing in the area you can plumb for the expansion tank.

Start with a cold hot water tank and then open valve to relieve ny pressure. Check the pressure gauge. Turn on the water heater and don't use any taps. When the water heater heats up check the gauge. Look at the difference of pressure.

[Bubbleboy]

@Speed - You're right! I'll try it.

@KSS - Good idea. I'll do that also.

I'll probably try this on the weekend. The town center decided to return my call after I had purchased the PRV... :\ They said they will come over and have a look at my pressure and see if there is anything they can do on their end.

Cheers,
Bubbles