[IBates]

I have a 10 week Papillon that I have been trying to potty train. I have had success with my 2 year old Maltese, but struggling with my new puppy. I have chosen to train him on a pad. He is only in the crate for a short period, if I am not able to keep watch of him. Otherwise he is always with me, since I am home. During the day he does very well, but he is also very stubborn. Sometimes it takes 45 minutes or more for him to finally do something on the pad. But overall during the day he's doing pretty good considering his age.

My problem is in the evening. His last feeding is usually around 6:30pm. About 15 minutes after dinner, I take him to his pad and he does his business. Then before I call it a night, I'll take him to the pad once again. His crate is in my room and he seems to like his crate because he tends to go in there on his own during the day. But at night he makes me believe he's sleeping through the night, because he doesn't make a sound. Yet when morning comes, he has peed and pooped in the crate.

I don't know what to do, since he doesn't even whimper giving me notice that he needs to go. He did the first few days he was with us, but not anymore. Weird thing, that during the day he will whimper for me.

Could it be the crate is too big? I just don't know what to do, to break this evening habit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[shazamataz]

I have a 14 week old puppy at the moment who still does the same thing.

He will happily pee and poop outside if you take him out but he's also quite happy to do it on the floor as well.

He has just caught on that pooping is not to be done in his crate and now I just find a little wee in there of a morning.

Your Pap will catch on eventually, she's only young, and I'm assuming you have only had her for 2 weeks.

I'm not a big fan of puppy pads... I have one in my pups crate under his blanket, and one in his puppy pen but that is just to soak up any accidents, I actively take him outside every time he wakes up or eats.

The problem with puppy pads is that to a dog they can feel just the same as carpet, or clothing, or towels and they can get confused. Then when they pee on the carpet (which they thought was the puppy pad) they wonder why they are being punished.

[IBates]

Thanks for your reply. See I've had great success with the pads. My Maltese is going to be 2 years old and she always goes to the pad. She has learned that she is able to go on that area and has never gone elsewhere. I even leave her loose around the house if I go out with no worries. I am hoping I can get my Papillon trained the same way. If I take him to the pad, he eventually goes on it. It's the evenings in the crate that is the issue. The first week he would whimper when he had the urge to go, but now he doesn't and just goes inside the crate.

I'm not sure if perhaps I need to block part of the crate or just set my alarm to get up every 2 to 3 hours until he is mature enough to hold it for a longer time.

[shazamataz]

If you have had success with the pads before then that's great, I just haven't had as much luck in the past :rolleyes:

I wouldn't set an alarm to get up, that will teach him that eventually when you stop getting up and you want to get some sleep that it's OK for him to cry and wake you up at 2am.
At the moment I have my crate separated into a bed and a toilet part.
I have his bed on one side with a pad under the blankets, then a space next to it with just a pad. Dog will rarely potty on their bedding unless they have no other option so when mine wakes up in the middle of the night he will get off his bed and use the pad next to it, you might like to try that.

[IBates]

If you have had success with the pads before then that's great, I just haven't had as much luck in the past :rolleyes:

I wouldn't set an alarm to get up, that will teach him that eventually when you stop getting up and you want to get some sleep that it's ok for him to cry and wake you up at 2am.
At the moment I have my crate separated into a bed and a toilet part.
I have his bed on one side with a pad under the blankets, then a space next to it with just a pad. Dog will rarely potty on their bedding unless they have no other option so when mine wakes up in the middle of the night he will get off his bed and use the pad next to it, you might like to try that.

I wish it was that simple. I tried that and he ends up pushing his bedding and the pad, only to poop and pee underneath it.

I never went through this with my other dog. So I'm completely lost as to how to approach this matter. :(

[shazamataz]

The only other advice I can really give you is to be patient (unfortunately)
Potty training is something that comes with age, and to be honest, a lot of smaller breeds take a lot longer than the larger ones.

My parents Great Dane was pretty much potty trained completely when he arrived at 10 weeks, but I just got my 14 week old Chinese Crested and he still uses the floor, the bigger dogs seem to mature a lot faster in that respect.

From memory the general rule for how long a puppy can hold it is 1 hour for every month of age. So yours would only be able to hold it for maybe 3 hours before needing to go... sleeping should make that time a bit longer. By 4-5 months she should have no problem at all holding it all night.

(sorry if I'm confusing today, running on not much sleep!)

[IBates]

An update: I decided to block half of the crate to give him enough space to sleep in and be able to turn around in. I managed to be awake around 2:45 am. So I took him out and he immediately pee'd and pooped on the pad. :) When I got up he did it again on the pad. Now tonight will be a test. I think I'll wait to see if he'll wake up and let me know that he has to go out, now that he has limited space in his crate.

Thanks for your advice and support. I'll keep you posted. THANK YOU :)

Iliana

[shazamataz]

Great news! I hope he keeps it up!
I had some great news myself today, my pup slept in until 9am with no accidents either!

[IBates]

So glad it went well for you.

Well last night was the test. I decided to see if he would let me know the he needed to go. It never happened. Got up at 6am to find poop in the front corner of the crate.

I just don't get it. He whimpers during the day if he needs to go. He even whimpers when he is about to poop. So why doesn't he whimper during the night when he has to go? He did not make one peep.

So it looks like I'll have to make sure I get up and take him out myself. Hopefully as he gets older, he will be able to hold it or learn to let me know.

Just real surprised that with me blocking a portion of the crate, giving him only enough room to sleep that he pooped anyway.

Meeko for sure has me completely confused. LOL

[Aurora_Bell]

When is his last feeding? Why don't you try feeding him a little earlier, and taking him out a little later in the evening, even if he doesn't alert you that he needs to go out side.

[IBates]

His last feeding usually is between 5:30 and 6pm. I usually go to bed around 10pm, sometimes later. Right before I call it a night, I'll take him out (on the pad) one last time.

Now like I mentioned before, if I get up on my own around 2:30 or 3am like that one time, then by the time I get up at 6/6:30 am he's held it. But if I don't get up on my own to see if he will alert me, what happens is he will go in his crate without complaining.

[Aurora_Bell]

I also am not a fan of the puppy pads, in my opinion, they lead to confusion. Once the puppy thinks it's okay to eliminate in the house, then all bets are off. I read that you had success with them before, so just so you know I am in no way bashing it or anything. How big is the crate? With some dogs if the crate is too big they designate an area to use the bathroom in. And from my understanding he is still quite young?

[IBates]

Well I blocked the crate to give him enough space to only turn around and sleep, since the crate is too big for him.

[Aurora_Bell]

Jeeze, I'm sorry. I don't have much else to add! Maybe I guess it could be because he is still young. Don't give up! Any pic's?? :D

[IBates]

Oh I'm not giving up at all. I adore him. He has an awesome personality, even if he's a tad bit stubborn. I figure that I'll just have to get up a certain time to take him out in the middle of the night. Hopefully as he matures it will change.

Hope you can see this picture. Thanks so much for your support and advice.

[shazamataz]

He is gorgeous! So cute!

Give him time... there is no right or wrong with toilet training (except rubbing their nose in it) it's all just trial and error to see what works with each individual dog.
What works for mine may not work for yours and vice versa.

[Aurora_Bell]

Totally agree. Trial and error.