[litesky]

Hello all,

Here's my situation, I'll try to keep it short and sweet.

Me and my (ex) girlfriend have been going out now for about 4 years, she is 25 and I am 27. Like most relationships, the beginning was nothing short of absolute bliss and happiness. Of course, like some relationships, it started to slowly crumble into pieces.

Over the course of 4 years, I have learned that forgiveness doesn't always mean happiness, the act of being faithful can not always be returned, dreams can be shattered, and hopes left to burn.

Without going into explicit detail, she lied. She has been lying to me over the last 4 years about ridiculous things (i.e. talking to ex boyfriends, doing drugs, and god knows what.) During the relationship I forgave her for some of those things as I understood that relationships aren't perfect. She wanted this relationship, and wanted to "grow up" because she realized that I am what she's always wanted. We attempted to work on it, I tried communicating to her from the bottom of my heart but it always seemed like I never got through to her.

I began what I call "emotional pain cycles", which include the realization of a wrong-doing on her part, followed by arguing, heartbreak, forgiveness, and attempting to work on it, at which point the cycle repeats. I would like to add that I'm not a "nice guy" type and I don't take these things lightly. The reasons that these cycles repeat is entirely beyond the realm of my comprehension.

I reached that "last-straw" moment when I found that she had been secretly talking to her ex boyfriend for the last three weeks. They saw and talked to each other almost everyday for those three weeks until I found out. Since she is a chronic liar, I have no idea what exactly took place in those three weeks, and if anything else happened during our entire relationship. Even after I found out about everything, she continued to deny all the details until I found out one by one through irrefutable evidence.

Funny enough, she is again begging for forgiveness. Although I'm pretty sure that your responses will probably sound something like, "leave her, she isn't worth it!" , "Get on with your life! You're better than that!", and the oh so popular "She's a liar dude, she'll never change!!". I hope to receive more intelligent responses as I am sure you guys are capable of as I have heard from other posts!

I am simple... I love you, you love me, we always tell the truth, and I will do everything I can in this world to make you and me happy. I've been through it all, this one's got me confused.

How can someone be so cruel?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

[talaniman]

Talaniman Rule-When you accept bad behavior, you get more ofit.

Talaniman Rule - Never accept bad behavior

"leave her, she isn't worth it!" , "Get on with your life! You're better than that!", and the oh so popular "She's a liar dude, she'll never change!!".

You have already got all the intelligent answers you need to make an informed decision, so make one.

[ohsohappy]

You know, if you're already at that point, then I see no point in trying to speculate further. Nothing you do will change who she is or how she behaves. You can do everything right, but if she's not willing to change and work with you, then it's time to move on. I know it's hard to accept that there is no longer a relationship there, but from what your post tells me, you've never really had one since the beginning. If after 4 years things haven't changed, then that should tell you what the remainder of your relationship will be like with her should you choose to stay with her. If after four years she still lies to you, and you still can't trust each other, then you probably never will. That's not exactly a relationship I'd want to bet the rest of my life on. This relationship is all it will ever be, if you don't like it then it's within your power to get out.

[JoeCanada76]

It seems to me like Tal has said you answered your own questions. Over the years you have known her to be a liar and much more than that. It seems she wants her cake and ice cream and everything on top if you know what I mean.

Of course, you need to take the blame for a lot of this happening. The reason being is that you accepted these things and let the cycles continue, you might not think you are or were part of the problem but you are.

So now that we have settled that part of your post. Your both to blame for this type of relationship it is up to you now to make the final decision. It is not up to us. I know that you want things to be simple. Loving each other and being truthful with each other but it is obvious that she was never truthful to you and how can you trust her any longer.

No more chances. No more cycles. You need to break this cycle. You need to make the decision to continue or end it.
You need to work on what reasons you have decided to stay in such a bad relationship. Fears that you need to deal with before getting into any other relationships in the future.

There must be some reason why you put up with so much and did not get any true love in return. Are you afriad to be alone without a girlfriend or a better half? Are you just going with the status qua just thinking this is the best you can get? You need to figure out why you kept part of the cycle going and only maybe after that you can understand and figure out why it went on as long as it did.

Wish you the best and hope you make a decision you know is right for you and no body else.

[litesky]

I'd just like to make it clear that I never accepted this type of behavior nor did I encourage it. However, it is my fault for continuing to believe that she would change every time she said she would. It was my mistake, and I accept the entirety of my decision in believing that she would learn from her mistakes. I believed that relationships had their ups and their downs and part of my decision was based on the fact that not all relationships are not perfect. It just got to the point though, where sometimes the betrayal and pain was unbearable, causing me to make this final decision.

You're probably wondering why I stayed all this time, and as cliche'd as it is, my feelings for her run deep (sounds like mush, but its true!). I genuinely did not want to let go because I honestly believed that our relationship had yet to reach its potential.

I guess what I'm really trying to ask is, how do I let go of something that makes so much sense logically but conflicts with the deepest part of my emotions? And given that I do the logical thing, what happens if I regret it?

I sincerely thank you for the responses.

[ohsohappy]

I'd just like to make it clear that i never accepted this type of behavior nor did i encourage it. However, it is my fault for continuing to believe that she would change every time she said she would. It was my mistake, and i accept the entirety of my decision in believing that she would learn from her mistakes. I believed that relationships had their ups and their downs and part of my decision was based on the fact that not all relationships are not perfect. It just got to the point though, where sometimes the betrayal and pain was unbearable, causing me to make this final decision.

You're probably wondering why i stayed all this time, and as cliche'd as it is, my feelings for her run deep (sounds like mush, but its true!). I genuinely did not want to let go because I honestly believed that our relationship had yet to reach its potential.

I guess what I'm really trying to ask is, how do I let go of something that makes so much sense logically but conflicts with the deepest part of my emotions? And given that I do the logical thing, what happens in the event that i regret it?

I sincerely thank you for the responses.

Most likely you will regret it for a while, because you're unsure. I'm sure you'll go therough all the what-if's as well. And even if you do feel that, you move on. You don't talk to her, you don't let her reel you back in, you go, and you keep going. Learn fromit, and don't repeat it. Just because you have feelings for this woman, does not mean that she shares these feelings for you. She obviously isn't in the same part of the relationship that you are, and since you stay with her regardless, I doubt she will ever change. Like I said, the probablilty is minuscule. You have the potential to move on and grow from this, you're still young, and nothing is ever certain. The main thing is that you trust yourself. Logic doesn't always mean the right answers, kind of ironic. Just know that you are not alone, and there's lots of ways to move on, if you're willing to that is.

[dynocompe]

You say your not a "nice guy" and do not take these things lightly. But you let her walk all over you for 4 years? If you didn't take these things lightly you would have been long over her already. She always got away with doing her bad behaviour, so it has never stopped to the nice guy.

[Imabadman]

She walks all over you. You confront her but never quite deliver on consequences. Sorry, call it what you want buddy… you've allowed her behavior time and time again and once again she'll be sweet talking you till those double-jointed knees of yours flip the other way.

Come on, it's not like she just lied to you once right? More like a serial liar. And the ex-boyfriends and drugs… only once? Nope. My guess at this point she doesn't take you serious, in other words she lost respect for you.

So…

Yes, you are a push over.
Yes, you take things too lightly.
Yes, you allowed and continue to allow her behavior.

Instead of trying to convince everyone that you're all in control of this girl and the relationship for the past 4 years maybe you should be questioning if you're ready to hop off this merry go-round.

I'll give you credit though… you're right. Relationships are not perfect, they are tough and they do take a lot of work and effort.

[litesky]

She walks all over you. You confront her but never quite deliver on consequences. Sorry, call it what you want buddy… you’ve allowed her behavior time and time again and once again she’ll be sweet talking you till those double-jointed knees of yours flip the other way.

Come on, it’s not like she just lied to you once right? More like a serial liar. And the ex-boyfriends and drugs… only once? Nope. My guess at this point she doesn’t take you serious, in other words she lost respect for you.

So…

Yes, you are a push over.
Yes, you take things too lightly.
Yes, you allowed and continue to allow her behavior.

Instead of trying to convince everyone that you’re all in control of this girl and the relationship for the past 4 years maybe you should be questioning if you’re ready to hop off this merry go-round.

I’ll give you credit though… you’re right. Relationships are not perfect, they are tough and they do take a lot of work and effort.

Please let me articulate further.

Yes, I allowed her to continue her behavior.
Yes, I take things too lightly.
Yes, I am a push over.
Yes, I am a lot of things that I shouldn't have been.

You win.

But understand, that I completely and absolutely understand the problems that I face within myself. I'm fortunate enough to have the ability to dig deep and understand the underlying issues that may have caused this mess.

In relationships, it requires two people to make it work. I would like point out that her actions and behaviors would not have been affected by a difference in my personality, or any difference what so ever in the manner that I chose to forgive her.

She is selfish, and regardless of what I could have or might have done, the only way she could possibly have changed is if I left. I just made the poor decision of staying in a relationship that nurtured her habit of lying. The only possible consequence I could offer was my absence. I was too blinded in the early part of the relationship to realize that her lying was a habit, and not a learning process that most couples endure during a healthy relationship.

Although I could place the blame entirely on my shoulders, I tend to believe that we both contributed to the slow death of this relationship. What I do not understand however, is how you would be willing to leave immediately after being hurt. That is incomprehensible, as the closest human reaction would be to assess whether it would be worth it to save the relationship. If you actually resolve your problems the way you have portrayed it to me, then you're problems must run deeper than mine.

With that being said, my question remains the same... I need to find a reason that makes sense logically and emotionally, that goes deeper and beyond the obvious advice of letting go. I've been in relationships where I had to let people go, and relationships where I've been let go. This one is is simplistic on the outer surface, yet so intricate and complicated when examined closer.

Keep in mind, If you want what you've never had, you have to do what you've never done.

[dynocompe]

"Keep in mind, If you want what you've never had, you have to do what you've never done."
Not even close true, maybe some cases obviously. Like if you want some kind of adrenline life risking rush, you would have to go sky diving or something like that.
But to get the relationship you so desire with this girl, you don't have to stick it out with a selfish girl who walks all over you, and isn't changing. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. Absence would be the best thing for this girl, if she was going to truly treat you how you should be treated, she might have to find out what its like to lose a good thing. And then maybe she would see everything in a different light and realize you will not put up with crap.

You can find someone who loves you for you, doing exactly what you do now and will not be so selfish and someone you can trust.

Keep in mind, to eat a pineapple, you must like apples

[litesky]

"Keep in mind, If you want what you've never had, you have to do what you've never done."
not even close true, maybe some cases obviously. Like if you want some kind of adrenline life risking rush, you would have to go sky diving or something like that.
But to get the relationship you so desire with this girl, you dont have to stick it out with a selfish girl who walks all over you, and isnt changing. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. Absence would be the best thing for this girl, if she was going to truly treat you how you should be treated, she might have to find out what its like to lose a good thing. And then maybe she would see everything in a different light and realize you will not put up with crap.

You can find someone who loves you for you, doing exactly what you do now and will not be so selfish and someone you can trust.

Keep in mind, to eat a pineapple, you must like apples

Well said.

Is this one of those scenarios where it's just completely both out of our control? I'm guessing by the tone of which the responses I have received, that taking her back will only encourage this negative behavior.

What shall I do with all these left over feelings? I've let a few relationships go in the past, but never when feelings were still involved. I'm new in that area... any advice?

[talaniman]

This one is is simplistic on the outer surface, yet so intricate and complicated when examined closer.

Naw, I think your making it more complicated, she is a lousy partner and needed to be let go a long time ago.

You just could not accept that action at the time. That's what the problem is, for whatever reason you were slow in your actions hoping(falsely) that she would change. She didn't.

For whatever reason you are not accepting how really simple this is. That's your feelings talking, not your head. Always have been, so tell your feelings to shut the hell up so your head can get a few words in.

We all have faced that dilemma.

[dynocompe]

I am not sure if you are dating her still or not,but if it was me, I would break up with her, telling her that you are tired of her doing everything behind your back, the lies and the heart ache and you are not putting up with it anymore. Then I would go on NC. Then I would go on with my life because you would most likely be better off. But if she did come crawling back, and seemed very sincere that she changed her ways and truly wants it to work. I may give it another temporary go and see how things are. To do this you must have forgiven her and trust her fully otherwise questioning her trust will only make her abuse it once again.
I hate breaking up, and would rather always work it out. But I really do only see this as a solution. She has to realize what she is doing is wrong and it will not be tolerated.
And if you do break up and she goes with her ex, I wouldn't be worried. I would rather her go to the ex than a new guy. They have history and I am sure it will repeat itself quickly and end.

[litesky]

I am not sure if you are dating her still or not,but if it was me, I would break up with her, telling her that you are tired of her doing everything behind your back, the lies and the heart ache and you are not putting up with it anymore. Then I would go on NC. Then i would go on with my life because you would most likely be better off. But if she did come crawling back, and seemed very sincere that she changed her ways and truly wants it to work. I may give it another temporary go and see how things are. To do this you must have forgiven her and trust her fully otherwise questioning her trust will only make her abuse it once again.
I hate breaking up, and would rather always work it out. But i really do only see this as a solution. She has to realize what she is doing is wrong and it will not be tolerated.
And if you do break up and she goes with her ex, I wouldnt be worried. I would rather her go to the ex than a new guy. They have history and I am sure it will repeat itself quickly and end.

Hehe... funny you should mention NC cause I've been on it for about 5 weeks now. I brought it up because I needed time alone to figure out whether this was for me. Besides, I wanted to make a decision without emotions playing with my head.

As for the possibilities after the break up, I'm not the jealous type and wouldn't be worried at all if she would go back to her ex. That situation would be entirely laughable at which point my decision would be clear as day.

But I can't take her back even if she came back begging because I have done that before numerous times. It always comes back to bite me in the a**. I let her back before because I sincerely believed that she would change. But it didn't happen. The only way I see her changing is if I left, which ironically enough is not want I want to happen.

I'm still trying to find it within myself to learn to let go of something regardless of feelings involved because it's the right thing to do. Anyone else experience this?

[neverme]

litesky,

I think that you have an exceptional outlook on life and I don't doubt that you have grown over the four years of your relationship into the thoughtful and caring man you are now.

The problem is... this girl hasn't. She hasn't grown into a thoughtful woman with respect for her relationship and partner. She hasn't grown into a woman who takes responsibility for her actions. She hasn't grown into an adult at all.

It seems that your relationship has become more of a rebellious teen vs. guardian rather than a partnership. Hiding what she does and who she talks to, these are not the actions of an adult who cares and respects not only their relationship, their partner... but themselves?

So it's time to move on, you two are not compatible anymore. You are willing to look at your relationship in realistic terms and work on the issues that arise, she's not even willing to take responsibility for her own (self) destructive behaviour. Stop allowing yourself to be collateral damage in her war against the world, or the man or whatever euphemism she's using today for her own self doubt.

[dynocompe]

Yes I think you just answered your own question! Time to move on! Letting go is extremely hard, I have experienced it many of times, rather tired of the experience!
Not fun in any way, one of the worst feelings in the world. It so hard to understand how they would want it over and how they could treat you like that. Reality is, there not in it as much as you. I am never going to put more effort into a relationship than my partner is, ever again, I know that much!
If you have gave her second chances already, and your not giving her a second chance, then I am sure you are certain to move on and let it go!
Good luck.

[neverme]

Hehe... funny you should mention NC cause i've been on it for about 5 weeks now. I brought it up because i needed time alone to figure out whether or not this was for me. Besides, i wanted to make a decision without emotions playing with my head.

As for the possibilities after the break up, i'm not the jealous type and wouldn't be worried at all if she would go back to her ex. That situation would be entirely laughable at which point my decision would be clear as day.

But i can't take her back even if she came back begging because i have done that before numerous times. It always comes back to bite me in the a**. I let her back before because i sincerely believed that she would change. But it didnt happen. The only way i see her changing is if i left, which ironically enough is not want i want to happen.

I'm still trying to find it within myself to learn to let go of something regardless of feelings involved because its the right thing to do. Anyone else experience this?

So much! Unfortunately :(

Myself and my ex were very close we worked, lived and socialized together and when it stopped working I didn't leave. When it started hurting I didn't leave. When I did leave, I came back or let her come back. I was convincing when we were together, and still am sometimes on those real lonely nights :rolleyes:, that she was the one. But what can you do when 'the one' and you only hurt each other? You've got to leave. The way that I dealt with it was because I wasn't strong enough to do it for myself I made myself see the hurt I was causing her and the happiness I wasn't allowing her (both applicable to myself, as I would thankfully see later) and made myself leave.

I took some time by myself and got my life together threw myself into my college work, job and friends and remembered what was good about being single ;) She's got a new girlfriend now and I'm still having fun being single and we have been able to stay friends, not as close but we check in on each other but it's been nearly two years now, and it took a lot of truth and honesty after alot of space.

Being friends is not always possible or preferable and it's not always easy but that was my decision, I don't know if I'd recommend it as it's not the easier or safest route, just the one I took.

[Imabadman]

litesky what I said was not about winning. It was a reality check for you. Everyone is echoing the same sentiments articulated in various fashions.

Get off the merry go-round or pay your toll and take another ride. Good luck.

[Yosomoton213]

It seems like you are in a relationship yo-yo. I have been in the same situation myself. It seems that when you pull back, and you almost reach the breaking point, the ex does just the bare minimum to get back with you (I'm a sucker for tears, as most guys are).

It also doesn't help that you, much like I did, keep having the hope that someday her behavior will change and things will become better. I don't need to tell you, you've been there for four years. It won't change. It seems that you have maturity that your partner does not have. She's still playing the usual games. Therefore, you are going to have to be the bigger person and throw in the towel, as she never will be completely "done" with you.

It seems that you are a man, and she is still in her little "freshman in college" girl phase. Regardless of your feelings for her, you realize that you will never be truly happy with this person. Cut her out of your life and refuse to play these games anymore. People do NC to get back at their ex, or to get back WITH their ex. This is all rubbish. Do it for the purposes of creating space between you and the relationship, realizing that it is over. Stay committed to it. No phone calls, texts, emails, or any sort of contact.

Log on in 3 months and tell us how you feel then...

[imissher]

Learn to let go. I know it's hard to hear but in your case, it is your only choice.

Don't dwell on the possibilities, just distance yourself enough for you to realize what you want in life.