[QLP]

This is one of those things that has 'niggled' at the back of my mind for a few years. It's not a huge issue all the time but something that bothers me occaisionally when I think about it and I would be happier if I could resolve it.

My hubby, like most men, enjoys a bit of porn from time to time. It's not really my bag, but no big deal. Now the thing is, I have no problem with jealousy or feeling it's intrisically wrong to watch other people or anything like that.

The problem is this. A few years ago I watched a documentary about female porn stars. The women on this programme had all been really badly affected by being in porn. Some had committed suicide even. Some had been co-erced into it. Even the ones that had gone into it happily, felt scarred by the way the men who ran the business had treated them.

Now I realise this won't be the case for all of them. I also realise that a documentary sets out to present a certain point of view so they would have milked the angle they were giving. But how can you know if the people involved are OK with what they are doing?

It's not just about porn really. I like to buy fair-trade goods and would feel awful if I thought I was getting clothes made by child slaves or something like that. It's just that I can see the potential for exploitation in porn and that's what makes me uneasy.

For me to feel genuinely comfortable with my hubby, or anyone else, watching porn I need to know that they aren't watching someone who is being unwillingly exploited in some way, as if they are it kind of makes me feel the watcher is being complicit, however undeliberately, in the exploitation. If I can be confident that all the people are quite happy with what they are doing and just enjoy earning their cash having sex on camera then fine.

Is there any way to tell? Are some porn makers better than others?

[abodh]

In the third world, primarily Asian countries such as India, Thailand, Philippines, there are many incidents that women are being co-erced for sexual exploitation. But in the societies where women are educated, co-ercion is rare per my reading on the media.

[Synnen]

I've been thinking about this question all morning, and it seems to me the only way you can be reasonably sure is to watch amateur porn as opposed to the Hollywood produced stuff.

[smoothy]

No way to know that I know of... what may have happened decades ago while it was illegal or still had a dubious legality are moot, Today they all do it knowingly, and willingly... and are compensated for it. They don't HAVE to do it. They are fully capable of normal jobs... they would just have to work harder for the money. Just as they get older they begin to realise they made choices they regret and try to blame others when it was their choice all along.

I think its less about the porn industry making them unstable... but that being unstabile they may have been drawn TO the porn industry.

Many people tend to go for the easy money... IE getting the most money for the least amount of work.


But like Synnen said... there is plenty of amateur porn out there if you like to watch with him. Personally big fake boobs in many of the PRO porn movies turn me off. I'd rather see a real "A" to a silicone "D", or even moderately saggy "D"s. Because I honestly have never once seen a real set of "D"s that defy the law of gravity... even on 16 year olds when I was still a teenager. Hell to see most porn you'd think they single handedly keep all the plastic surgeons in business.

[450donn]

In my opinion there is no porn that is not full of problems. Porn itself is addictive and the fastest growing segment of the internet. By simply reading all the posts in this section you will soon realize that porn is one of the biggest things people come on here and ask about. Almost always in relationship terms. According to people who understand the situation, pron is so bad and people are using porn so much to get off that it is becoming almost impossible for them to have a real sexual relationships. I would encourage you to get your husband to understand how addictive porn is and that he needs to stop before it effects your relationship.

[smoothy]

Alcohol is addictive... Religion is too... we know tobacco is.

[450donn]

JK191 apparently you have not read the rules on the rating system. I stated a fact and you gave an opinion. OH well. You and Smoothy make absurd comments about addictions. Coffee, chocolate and sugar as far as I know have never caused relationship problems like porn addiction. Smoothy is one who believes that porn is OK. I do not. My belief is based on the number of questions posted on this forum about relationships and porn. A simple read would lead you to understand why I believe that. But I don't know, maybe you are too lazy to actually read all the information that is available about addictions, especially porn addiction, so you must instead make nasty comments against people who do not agree with you.

[smoothy]

What's absurd about my comments...

Far more people are addicted to things other than porn than are addicted to porn.

And any of those also cause relationship problems... just like compulsive shopping does. If that wasn't such a huge problem... why are so many people so deeply in credit card debt. Why do so many people insist on living beyond their means.

I think that is a far larger problem in society as it effects far more people who aren't even connected to you in any way. Witness the current economy for a prime example of a lot of people way over reaching.


Yeah SOME people get addicted to porn... but SOME people are addicted to caffine... Shopping, and actually if you look deeply enough.. somebody is addicted to just about anything you can name.

Some people just have addictive personalities and if it wasn't porn.. it could just as easily be something else.

Now would you consider a compulsion to be the same as an addiction, or a habit?

[450donn]

Yet these "addicted" people are not on THIS forum asking about relationship problems and mentioning that their partner watches porn on the computer or looks at porn all the time. Come on, get real for a change. I know you watch porn and do not feel that it is an issue in your relationship. But I do not see you or your spouse coming on here and asking questions about porn use in a relationship. Just because it is legal does not make it right in a kind loving relationship. You really need to spend some time reading what the experts are saying about porn, porn addiction and it's bottom line effects on relationships. Not just what you are reading in playboy and huistler.

[smoothy]

Yet these "addicted" people are not on THIS forum asking about relationship problems and mentioning that their partner watches porn on the computer or looks at porn all the time. Come on, get real for a change. I know you watch porn and do not feel that it is an issue in your relationship. But I do not see you or your spouse coming on here and asking questions about porn use in a relationship. Just because it is legal does not make it right in a kind loving relationship. You really need to spend some time reading what the experts are saying about porn, porn addiction and it's bottom line effects on relationships. Not just what you are reading in playboy and huistler.

Um... this IS the Adult Sexuality forum after all. This IS the forum for that subject... not the other ones. That's like going to a Suburu Dealer and saying look at all the Suburus here for repair. They must be junk.

That's why you don't see people talking about Shopping addictions. Credit card debt etc... in THIS forum.

How about we discuss your compulsion about ranting over porn in general? Or would you personally like to see a resurgance of Victorian era sexual practices?

[CravenMorhead]

450donn,

There is no medical definition for addiction to sex, masturbation, or pornography. It is currently being reviewed, but the evidence is often circumstantial or anecdotal. It holds it own about as well as colon hydrotherapy. Unless you have some really good research supporting your claim.

All I have found is people, Stephen Andert for example, who state that a Porn addiction is like a Gambling addiction without any supporting evidence. There is the equipment and the motivation, by the anti-obscenity movement, to do studies about this. Goodness knows that I would participate in this.

Speaking of anecdotal evidence. I have about 600-700GB of porn on my computer, of all varieties. I also masturbate on a daily basis. I don't have sex with my GF because of a medical condition. Before this condition we humped like rabbits. There is something about the feeling of a woman over righty. Draw your own conclusion from that.

So let us all step off our Passive Aggressive soap boxes and answer the question posed by the OP:
Is there any way to tell?
Talk to your local porn producers, and talk to a few porn stars. All their information is at the beginning of the movies or inside the front cover of the magazines. From what I have seen, most porn stars seem to enjoy their work.

Are some porn makers better than others?
This is conjecture, but I would assume all the big names in the porn industry are pretty good, also some of the smaller names. Some of the Amateur stuff might not be so good, same with some of the Voyeur or 'back alley' produced stuff.

I believe the industry, for the most part, is very transparent. I know there was a TV show on a while back that followed a few porn stars. A scene that I remember is this skinny natural blonde thing answering no the question of whether she was comfortable with an anal sex scene. I think that goes towards the creditability of the industry as a whole.

[450donn]

So you claim, and yet an .08 second Google search turned up 910,000 hits on the subject. Guess unless you have a Doctorate on the subject I will ignore your comments as another person who chooses to bury your head in the sand about this subject. Just out of curiosity, how much porn do you look at a day?

[spitvenom]

QLP I look at it a different way. These people picked this for their "career". And just like everyone else I am sure there are days they don't want to go to "work" but they have a contract with this company so they pretty much have to do it. I mean I don't want to go to work everyday but I do, sometimes with a smile sometimes with a frown.

There are a few companies that I would bet my life savings on that all the girls are happy to be there. I would mention them but I don't want it to look like I am advertising for them.

[smoothy]

So you claim, and yet an .08 second google search turned up 910,000 hits on the subject. Guess unless you have a Doctorate on the subject I will ignore your comments as another person who chooses to bury your head in the sand about this subject. Just out of curiosity, how much porn do you look at a day?

And you are a doctorate on the subject? I know that wasn't a response to my post but to cravenmoreheads post. I myself have no doctorate... and admit it.

Sorry... but I don't take the words of the foaming at the mouth anti-porn people any more than I listen to the bible thumpers who feel the need to knock on the door and interrupt my relaxation on weekends... and that can extend to the zealots of any religion or the foaming at the mouth religion hating aetheists as well.

Thank god this isn't the victorian era and the puritans dictate nothing to the rest of us.

Most of the people whining about being "forced" or drugged to do porn are people that are trying to distance themselves from the choices they made in their youth...


Incidentally... I know of Linda Lovelaces claims.(as one example)... which I believe are total BS... I've seen her movies (yes ALL of them)... and there is no way a person could be forced or drugged into those performances. She clearly loved it at that time... Just because she found religion in later years she tried to pretend the past wasn't what it really was. THere are some things that can't be forced or faked... and most women I have dated loved doing those things and as much as they wanted still could only dream of what she knew how to do which was a VERY difficult skill to master even for a woman who enjoyed that more than anything. That's NOT a skill anyone is born with... period. And you can't force someone to do that.. thanks to involuntary bodily reflexes that would happen.

And that is different than a woman years after you broke up suddenly deciding you forced her into having sex because her current hubby has problems with her past in what way? Because both ways they are formulating a lie to smooth over something they are no longer proud of. And who has NEVER done something they weren't proud of in the past... assuming you are old enough to actually HAVE a past... IE you have to be over 40 to answer that one.


Yeah its possible that a very few may have been forced or drugged.. (statistically its possible a few were)... but I'd like to see proof of those claims... since they are accusing others of a criminal act.. even if it might be past the SOL... they made a claim, lets see some evidence of those claims. Those producers have the right to be assumed innocent absent facts to the contrary. The ones here in the USA anyway.

Stupidity is no excuse assuming they were adults. And as adults they are responsible for their actions and choices. Good or bad.

[Catsmine]

By simply reading all the posts in this section you will soon realize that porn is one of the biggest things people come on here and ask about.

By simply reading all the posts in the Relationship and the Marriage forums, you will soon realize there is no such thing as a happy marriage and even a sexless relationship cannot last more than 3 months and all marriages are arranged by evil mothers-in-law. Your logic is a little skewed, Donn. The sample is not representative.

an .08 second Google search turned up 910,000 hits on the subject

And a 0.23 second Google search for "Razors" turns up 3.92 million hits. What was your search for, exactly?

In the days of 8mm film, QLP, porn probably was rather exploitative, as was most entertainment that wasn't marketed to children. Today some very large production studios advertise that their entire management is made up of former actresses .

[Gemini54]

QLP, in answer to your question, because this is one that I have also asked, I'd suggest that some porn is definitely less 'exploitative' than others. (I have in the past tended to watch porn produced by women for this reason - not sure if this still applies.)

Most of the major US porn movie houses would be heavily regulated and actors required to meet certain standards of health and receive certain rates of remuneration. I'd also suggest that most of the vanilla porn produced by these movie houses would fit this bill.

However, the same may not apply to some of the porn produced in Europe or Asia, so be cautious about porn produced in these continents.

Remember though that actors are actors regardless - can we ever be really sure they are enjoying the part they're playing?

[QLP]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Well I guess there's actually 2 issues for me.

There's the worry that some people might have actually been co-erced or forced. I had forgotten about the Linda Lovelace thing smoothy but I'm glad you reminded me. I guess there's a few things I've seen or read over the years that I've forgotten that has added to my concerns. I suppose there's just no way to really ascertain whether these claims are true or as you suggest 'excuses'. Then again I suppose people can be forced into a lot of things and I can't worry about them all. I expect it has happened on occasion so can only hope it is rare and getting more rare.

The other thing for me is that, as I simply can't imagine wanting to be a porn actress, I can't get my head around the motivation and worry that it attracts a lot of damaged people. For instance, I saw a programme once about a well-known current porn star and she got into it after she had been gang-raped. Now I can't for the life of me work out how going into porn helps you get over that. Then again, I know a lady in real lilfe who was raped and she is still self-harming years later. So who knows what is a good or bad way to deal with this stuff. I guess I have to respect the choices people make even if they make them for unhealthy reasons.

Thanks also for the tips on how to at least try to make sure the porn is less likely to be exploitative, that is helpful.

I think I need to mull this over a bit more before I really get my head around it but thank you for all the comments, lots of different perspectives is always helpful.

I found this article which is pretty close to the worries I have, and I'm thinking it over: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...on-940041.html

Incidentally, one of the things that I'm thinking about is the guy in the article saying he can't be a politician since he used to be a porn-star. If everyone is so OK with porn these days why can't an ex porn-star have a political voice? We do live with a lot of double-standards these days don't we?

[smoothy]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Well I guess there's actually 2 issues for me.

There's the worry that some people might have actually been co-erced or forced. I had forgotten about the Linda Lovelace thing smoothy but I'm glad you reminded me. I guess there's a few things I've seen or read over the years that I've forgotten that has added to my concerns. I suppose there's just no way to really ascertain whether these claims are true or as you suggest 'excuses'. Then again I suppose people can be forced into a lot of things and I can't worry about them all. I expect it has happened on occasion so can only hope it is rare and getting more rare.

The other thing for me is that, as I simply can't imagine wanting to be a porn actress, I can't get my head around the motivation and worry that it attracts a lot of damaged people. For instance, I saw a programme once about a well-known current porn star and she got into it after she had been gang-raped. Now I can't for the life of me work out how going into porn helps you get over that. Then again, I know a lady in real lilfe who was raped and she is still self-harming years later. So who knows what is a good or bad way to deal with this stuff. I guess I have to respect the choices people make even if they make them for unhealthy reasons.

Thanks also for the tips on how to at least try to make sure the porn is less likely to be exploitative, that is helpful.

I think I need to mull this over a bit more before I really get my head around it but thankyou for all the comments, lots of different perspectives is always helpful.

I found this article which is pretty close to the worries I have, and I'm thinking it over: Lights. Camera. Exploitation? - The Sex Industry, Love & Sex - The Independent

Incidently, one of the things that I'm thinking about is the guy in the article saying he can't be a politician since he used to be a porn-star. If everyone is so ok with porn these days why can't an ex porn-star have a political voice? We do live with a lot of double-standards these days don't we?

Google Cicciolina and Italy... you might be surprised. It was the women that voted her into office.

[QLP]

Google Cicciolina and Italy....you might be suprised. It was the women that voted her into office.

Yeh I know but it is exceptional. Can't see it happening here in Britain for a very long time. The old British reserve and all that...

[smoothy]

Yeh I know but it is exceptional. Can't see it happening here in Britian for a very long time. The old British reserve and all that....

Yeah... you do have a point there.