[hheath541]

Depends on the cat. You seem to be finding a lot of things saying stuff that isn't necessarily the norm. Not sure where you're finding some of this stuff. Like that thing about taurine not being a problem if you cook at low enough temperature or whatever you said. I can find plenty of info saying otherwise. And it's not worth taking the chance.

I seem to have misplaced the link that talked about cooking and taurine. If I find it again, I'll post it.

If I can find somewhere to buy taurine supplements, I will. It'll just have to be a store in the area, since I don't have any way to buy things online.

Would a pet store likely sell it?

Some cats can have a little dairy here and there, yes. But it's not a blanket statement that it's "OK." Depends on the cat, and depends on what you call occasionally. I'd stay away from milk. Cats don't need it. I know people who let their cats lick the ice cream bowl sometimes and that sort of thing. But really, keep it very limited. It's more of an occasional snack cause you feel like being indulgent, not part of a diet.

The amount of dairy I was talking about is basically what could be consumed by letting the cat lick a mac and cheese or ice cream bowl clean after I'm done with. Or the occasional small pieces of cheese (about the size of a quarter, in total). I know some cats can't handle it, and they usually end up throwing up. That would be simple enough to figure out after the first time, and I wouldn't let her have any more dairy.

Well... garlic and onion are in the same family. (Family may not be the proper scientific term, but you know what I mean.) Onion absolutely is bad for cats and from what I can tell it's been assumed that garlic is as well. However, I haven't seen the evidence that garlic is the same problem that onion is. Meaning I don't have a hissy if some food has just the teensiest bit of garlic in it. But then, I feed a variety of stuff for the very reason that I don't think any one company has everything perfect. So if a food had garlic, it would be like some teensy amount in one out of every 20 cans or something. And what you're giving is WAY more than the "teensiest" bit that might be in some cat food. What you're giving is more the equivalent of an entire clove of garlic!

I was unaware of the newer research. I've been doing a little more research on the matter in the past couple hours, and I will be avoiding garlic in the future.

Looks like a few simple herbs, like rosemary, from the spice aisle mixed with water and used as a bath will accomplish the same thing.

I plan on trying some of the herbal flea remedies, including one for natural flea collars, that I found. I've never liked the idea of using pesticides on animals. Herbs and essential oils are much better for them, in my mind.

I'm trying to figure this out. Homemade is certainly much more expensive than dry. I've never admitted to knowing the exact cost of homemade, especially since it will depend on recipe, but one of the links I gave you shows where one person worked out the approximate costs. I suspect it's more expensive than anything but one of the more expensive premium foods. (Which, again, you don't have to get, making homemade more expensive.)

So, you're not allowed to buy cat food on food stamps? So you're using what cash you actually have yourself to get the food, right?

Right. If I can at least supplement the cat food with items I CAN buy with food stamps, then it'll be easier to afford the other things, like litter.

I qualify for more food stamps than it takes to feed just me. I see no reason why I can't, or shouldn't, use the 'extra' to help feed a kitty.

I don't know the cost comparison. I don't know if you hate math like everyone else or whether you'd want to figure this out.

The best supplement to any food for a cat is human grade meat, like chicken. And egg. Egg actually has the best quality protein. I've heard differing opinions with egg on the cooked vs raw, and white vs yolk, so I don't know about that part. (Cooking is safer. And I know cats don't have the same cholesterol issues humans do, but maybe you think white is safer.)

I've read about adding egg to a cat's diet, and don't think it's a bad idea. I think the biggest drawback would be if the cat refuses to eat it. I would definitely cook the eggs, probably just boil them. I see no reason to only give egg whites, especially since a large portion of the protein and other nutrients are in the yolk.

From a general consensus, 15% is probably the max amount of the cat's diet you'd want to give of that type of non-supplemented food. (I've heard 15-20, but think 15% is the safer consensus.)

That's why I'm looking for the most balanced recipe possible. I know it's not a good idea to feed an animal large portions of just one food category, just like it's not a good idea with humans. I'm trying to find the best possible balance so she stays as healthy and happy as I can make her.



I'm not always the best at explaining things. I tend to get 'tongue-tied' and find it difficult to find the words to properly convey my point, especially if it's something I need help with. It often takes more than one try, and others pointing out the flaws, for me to properly explain. Sometimes I never quite express what I'm trying to.

Please don't take me repeating myself, or focusing on only portions of what was said, as my ignoring you or refusing to see what you're saying. It's just the way my brain works. I process things in parts, and sometimes need to dissect a statement or argument before I can completely understand what was being said, and properly explain my understanding of it.

I've already learned a lot from you guys. Once I've done a little more research, I might post the recipes I find here. See if you could possible help me find the best possible one. If that's OK with you.

[morgaine300]

That's why I said "like chicken." Probably just one of the cheaper things. Turkey is good too. Hmm, wonder what Max's house says about the protein level of those two... Oh, where the heck... I went and alphabetized my bookmarks and now I can't find anything. LOL. Oh, duh, the "food" folder inside the cat folder.

Well, it lists chicken, beef & seafood all at the same place, so I assume pretty much most meats are in that same area. The differences would be in how they'd process them. Seafood is actually great protein, but cats just shouldn't have a high percent of it as their diet. Small cats would have course eat stuff like mice, rabbits, moles, birds, etc. I think poultry is just closer to that than some other things.

There's some differing opinions about things like beef. A cat wouldn't normally eat beef (what, they're going to snare a cow?), but I don't know if that necessarily means it's bad for them. I've fed mine raw beef before - I just don't make a diet of it. Some people wouldn't do it. People do disagree over the beef issue, certain grains, fruits & veggies, by products, all that junk. I've always wondered how different small cats are from big cats. Cause big cats are going to eat deer, foxes, unicorns... er. So I see no reason a small cat shouldn't eat like venison and such. Am I rambling again?

I think turkey's good as well. I know people who give raw turkey necks for teeth cleaning too.

Just... stay away from pork. There's some doubt about pork.

[hheath541]

OK, no pork. Poultry and seafood are best, as long as seafood isn't the only meat. Beef and other large mammals shouldn't be dangerous, although unicorn just seems hard to come by ^_~

I think I'll stick mainly to chicken and turkey, with the occasional seafood addition, for meat.

any suggestions on veggies and grains? Or things to absolutely avoid? I know onions are bad. I've only ever met two cats that would eat peppers.

any other foods to avoid? What about foods that should probably be included? Raw versus cooked?

[morgaine300]

I seem to have misplaced the link that talked about cooking and taurine. If I find it again, I'll post it.

I think it actually is true if you cook it slowly enough over low temperatures. The issue with that is that it doesn't really take much. If you keep in raw, you can know as best as possible what's in it. But that's more expensive cause you really need to get like free-range. There are also places that sell "partially made" raw and you finish it up, but it's expensive. And you have to really observe all the safety issues. Most recipes are for raw. If you cook anything, the problem is that you don't really know what happened to the nutrients, and not just the taurine. So if I were to do a cooked homemade diet, I would just outright cook it and find a recipe that works for cooked. I wouldn't try to cook it just "right" and guess on what happened to it. I rarely see recipes for cooked and I don't know if I trust them.

There is, in fact, fully supplemented, ready-to-eat commercial raw. But it's very expensive. I couldn't afford it and I'm certainly not in the financial position you are, even if I'm not exactly rich.

if I can find somewhere to buy taurine supplements, I will. It'll just have to be a store in the area, since I don't have any way to buy things online.

Would a pet store likely sell it?

I have no idea. I've never looked for it. The people I know order that stuff online.

the amount of dairy I was talking about is basically what could be consumed by letting the cat lick a mac and cheese or ice cream bowl clean after I'm done with. Or the occasional small pieces of cheese (about the size of a quarter, in total). I know some cats can't handle it, and they usually end up throwing up. That would be simple enough to figure out after the first time, and I wouldn't let her have any more dairy.

More likely diarrhea. And yes you'd probably know. Licking stuff up is probably not a big deal, no. Mine do that, usually when I'm not looking. :D

looks like a few simple herbs, like rosemary, from the spice aisle mixed with water and used as a bath will accomplish the same thing.

I plan on trying some of the herbal flea remedies, including one for natural flea collars, that I found. I've never liked the idea of using pesticides on animals. Herbs and essential oils are much better for them, in my mind.

Well, I mostly agree with you. But you know, if you can afford a little upfront money, you could just get like Frontline and get rid of the buggers once and for all. Maybe a couple of months would do it. (Around here that'd be around $20-25 total, but this is a cheaper area.) It works well and it gets the eggs as well. I usually try to do some good vacuuming while it's working, but I don't get too freaky about it and the fleas still go poof with that stuff.

right. If I can at least supplement the cat food with items I CAN buy with food stamps, then it'll be easier to afford the other things, like litter.

Hmm... it finally hit me. If you're thinking in terms that homemade will allow you to buy regular people food with your food stamps... well, that's true, except that the grocery store might not have what I'd consider stuff that is good enough, or at least not if it's raw. Plus some of the cost is in the supplements, some of which wouldn't be gotten at a regular old grocery store. Yes, you can supplement with some cooked meat that's on sale or something, but again, not much of the diet. Like get some chicken in the mark-down section, or a turkey after Thanksgiving, cut it all up, and toss it in the freezer. (The giblets have the most taurine, BTW. ;))

(By the way, two things about raw vs cooking. One, cats were meant to eat raw but their systems have generally forgotten what to do about it. So you can start with just a tiny bit of raw and slowly get their systems used to it again. Also, the bad stuff is mostly on the outside of the food, which is why ground food is worse cause it just spreads it around. Though I used to give bits of raw ground beef to a cat and it never hurt him, but I mean like a little blob I could pick up between a thumb and finger. If you take say chicken and poach it, if you make sure it's getting done around the outside, some of the inside can be left raw. I'm referring to just supplementing here.)

I've read about adding egg to a cat's diet, and don't think it's a bad idea. I think the biggest drawback would be if the cat refuses to eat it.

Now c'mon, that's always the drawback. :p

that's why I'm looking for the most balanced recipe possible. I know it's not a good idea to feed an animal large portions of just one food category, just like it's not a good idea with humans.

I'd like to know what you mean by "food category." If you mean like meat, dairy, veggies, grains, seafood, etc. like we think of the food groups, that's not right. Cats are carnivores, plain and simple. They aren't humans and that nifty looking "healthy" picture on the Nature's Best just appeals to a human's idea of nutritious and has nothing to do with a cat. Now note I'm referring to those into feline nutritional research, and not your average person. But you will hear argument over whether a cat should have NO grains, or whether a little is OK. And whether a cat should have NO fruits & veggies, or whether a little is OK. Then there's my vet (who is not against homemade diet - just kind of has a hangup about raw), who thinks cats should have a little of those things. However, you will probably never find anyone who's really into nutrition who thinks a cat should have any more than a very small amount of anything that is not meat. Yes, a cat will go out and eat grass and chomp on some leaves and such, but how much of their diet is that? Very little. They eat animals - meat, skin, bones (small animals), guts.

Humans are nothing like cats. They're omnivores. Dogs are carnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. (Even dogs would do better if they ate more meat.)

Now, if you mean "food categories" like poultry vs beef vs rabbit... um, there's not a lot of consensus on that. Most people feeding raw feed mostly poultry and rabbit and they don't do much variety. Me feeding canned, I feed a variety due to not trusting that any food company has gotten it perfect, and due to my cats getting stick of the same old. It's not cause I feel they have to have a variety of meats. I've heard different opinions from people I trust on both sides, and I've formed no opinion. (That's right - there's something I have no opinion on. :p)

I'm not always the best at explaining things. I tend to get 'tongue-tied' and find it difficult to find the words to properly convey my point, especially if it's something I need help with. It often takes more than one try, and others pointing out the flaws, for me to properly explain. Sometimes I never quite express what I'm trying to.

Well, I will agree that I do understand what you're doing better than I did when you started. But you haven't run away yet and you're willing to come back and explain yourself.

I've already learned a lot from you guys. Once I've done a little more research, I might post the recipes I find here. See if you could possible help me find the best possible one. If that's OK with you.

Well, that's fine with me, but I don't really know the details of homemade diets. I more know the "gist" of it, if that makes sense. If it were me, I'd go with a source I trust, because they know better than I do. I know one person who even has access to a lab and can analyze what's in it once it's made. I'd more likely have an opinion if I saw something that just didn't look right. (Like if it said to dump 30% steamed vegetables in or something. I've seen that - don't agree with it.)

OK, this has been interesting but I'm like way late for bed and still need to eat something before I starve. It will be less nutritious than how I feed my cats. LOL.

[hheath541]

These are the ones I've found so far that look the most promising, at least to me.

Best Way - Cost-Effective Homemade Cat Food | eHow.com
(not the kibble recipe)

How to Make Homemade Food for Your Cat | eHow.com

How to Prepare Raw & Healthy Cat Food at Home | eHow.com

Cat Food Recipes, Cat Treat Recipes
(haven't really narrowed this site down at all)

No Cans - Make Yummy Fish Meals for Your Cats

No Cans - Make Yummy Food Your Cats with Chicken and Beef

[morgaine300]

I'm supposed to be going to bed. Stop asking me about stuff I'm passionate about. ;)

OK, no pork. Poultry and seafood are best, as long as seafood isn't the only meat.

I must be getting a bit like hhealth541, not saying what I really meant. Seafood is high protein, but cats shouldn't have much of it. I didn't mean to say as long as it "isn't the only meat." They really shouldn't have much. What I feed is about 1/3 their diets (canned that is) and I feel that's too much. (But the cat still rules on what they'll eat so... ) Some people won't feed any. If you want to supplement, little bits here and there shouldn't hurt. However, it can tend to spoil them. (As an added point, seafood shouldn't be fed raw at all. It's not as bad in a commercial food cause it's supplemented properly to make up for some lack of nutrients, in theory anyway. Plus most seafood flavors have other meats.)

beef and other large mammals shouldn't be dangerous,

Not that I'm aware of anyway. There may be something I haven't heard about.

although unicorn just seems hard to come by ^_~

Just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

any suggestions on veggies and grains? Or things to absolutely avoid? I know onions are bad. I've only ever met two cats that would eat peppers.

Peppers? I don't know if I'd want to feed a pepper to a cat. Well, there's chocolate of course. Cinnamon. Ok, that's not really a food. I think tomatoes in high quantity. A little tomato is OK. Are you going to make me do a search? It's not terribly difficult to find a list of what can be toxic to a cat. I honestly would never remember everything.

As for grains -- if you can imagine this, as freaky as I am about food, I'm actually much more lenient than a lot of people I know. Many say NO GRAINS, period. However, since I know darn well cats in nature would chomp on plants, I have nothing against a little plant. However, commercial cat food as an overall thing has WAY too much plant. Most dry foods are full of corn and wheat. The canned sliced, minced, chunked, etc. (i.e. pieces) tend towards having wheat and/or rice. All that stuff is high carb, and much of it is high glycemic, which is what wreaks havoc on their pancreas. Plus carbs will more likely just end up as fat. (Cats convert protein for energy, not carbs like humans. They can even use fat. They don't utilize carbs that great. Plus since calories are made of only protein, carb and fat, if it's high carb, something else isn't there. And too little protein means they're missing things that are necessary.)

If you're feeding any dry at all, that's way more than enough plant. Now, the pate style canned is usually lower carb, and much less likely to have grains. (Although rice still seems to be popular. It's high glycemic as well.) Fancy Feast pate has no grains, which is why some people pick it. But it does have by-products. I don't freak over the by-products like some people do. I'd pick that over some other things.

I don't see any point at all in purposely feeding grains of any sort. Other than growing grass for them to chomp on.

As for fruits & veggies -- um... that's probably a little less controversial. One thing to look for, for the grains as well, is how far down the ingredient list they are. Some foods list quite a bit of that stuff, but there's very little of it. Which is why I combine ingredients against nutritional analysis, which helps put the picture together. Berries are added for the antioxidents, but I think it's cranberries that are high sugar. I'm not sure the point of peas and carrots & such. Maybe the vitamins, which are probably mostly cooked out anyway. Pumpkin and similar for fiber. That's a controversy. Since I feed a variety, I just don't get too concerned if 10% of what I feed happens to have pumpkin.

Again, as a supplement, I see no point. Unless they like them. Then they become a snack. Just don't get carried away with it. My one cat likes tomatoes so he gets a little. I don't care if they chase a few peas around. The one loves to grab bread crusts and run off with it. So as an occasion snack cause the cat likes it is one thing. But doing it intentional as a supplement, no point.

what about foods that should probably be included?

Animals. :D You can chase some mice down if you like. LOL. Seriously, other than meat, I don't see a "need" to supplement anything if you're feeding a commercial food. What cats generally need is a good-quality protein. If you believe they should have a little grain cause they'd probably eat a little (or get it in their prey's stomach), there's usually plenty enough in commercial foods even if you feed canned. But, I don't know what you feed.

raw versus cooked?

I talked about that some in my other post. I think a raw diet is probably really great for cats, simply cause without cooking meat, it comes a heck of a lot closer to the way they would naturally eat. However, you have to be so careful with that, and be dedicated to it. So you either do it or you don't. And I don't. I know myself too well and I'm just a little too much on the lazy side.

But as a supplement, I think I probably covered that in the other post. I would just add to be careful with the raw - just little tiny bits at first, especially an older cat that isn't used to it. They might not even eat it. They get spoiled by fake sprayed-on-dry food flavorings and forget what real food is.

I'm upset that I can't get the byNature pouched anymore. It had these big chunks of meat. Like the chicken & liver has whole chicken livers. The male won't eat it, but my female would, and she'd grab those things and drag them onto the floor and rip at them. It's amazing how cool it is to watch a cat rip away at meat. (As long as it's dead first.) It's like real food.

[hheath541]

I must be getting a bit like hhealth541, not saying what I really meant. Seafood is high protein, but cats shouldn't have much of it. I didn't mean to say as long as it "isn't the only meat." They really shouldn't have much. What I feed is about 1/3 their diets (canned that is) and I feel that's too much. (But the cat still rules on what they'll eat so... ) Some people won't feed any. If you want to supplement, little bits here and there shouldn't hurt. However, it can tend to spoil them. (As an added point, seafood shouldn't be fed raw at all. It's not as bad in a commercial food cause it's supplemented properly to make up for some lack of nutrients, in theory anyway. Plus most seafood flavors have other meats.)

OK, so any seafood recipes I find should be occasional treats, not regular meals. Easy enough.

Peppers? I don't know if I'd want to feed a pepper to a cat. Well, there's chocolate of course. Cinnamon. Ok, that's not really a food. I think tomatoes in high quantity. A little tomato is OK. Are you going to make me do a search? It's not terribly difficult to find a list of what can be toxic to a cat. I honestly would never remember everything.

The peppers weren't an intentional addition to their diet. I lived with 9 cats for a few years. A couple of them liked to get into pizza boxes and eat the peppers that fell off. Never did figure out why they liked peppers so much.

The chocolate I already knew about. I think I remember someone mentioning cinnamon, but I see no reason why I would give a cat cinnamon, anyway.

Tomato is knew to me, but I see no reason why it would be a part of a cat's diet.

As for grains -- if you can imagine this, as freaky as I am about food, I'm actually much more lenient than a lot of people I know. Many say NO GRAINS, period. However, since I know darn well cats in nature would chomp on plants, I have nothing against a little plant. However, commercial cat food as an overall thing has WAY too much plant. Most dry foods are full of corn and wheat. The canned sliced, minced, chunked, etc. (i.e. pieces) tend towards having wheat and/or rice. All that stuff is high carb, and much of it is high glycemic, which is what wreaks havoc on their pancreas. Plus carbs will more likely just end up as fat. (Cats convert protein for energy, not carbs like humans. They can even use fat. They don't utilize carbs that great. Plus since calories are made of only protein, carb and fat, if it's high carb, something else isn't there. And too little protein means they're missing things that are necessary.)

If you're feeding any dry at all, that's way more than enough plant. Now, the pate style canned is usually lower carb, and much less likely to have grains. (Although rice still seems to be popular. It's high glycemic as well.) Fancy Feast pate has no grains, which is why some people pick it. But it does have by-products. I don't freak over the by-products like some people do. I'd pick that over some other things.

I don't see any point at all in purposely feeding grains of any sort. Other than growing grass for them to chomp on.

As for fruits & veggies -- um... that's probably a little less controversial. One thing to look for, for the grains as well, is how far down the ingredient list they are. Some foods list quite a bit of that stuff, but there's very little of it. Which is why I combine ingredients against nutritional analysis, which helps put the picture together. Berries are added for the antioxidents, but I think it's cranberries that are high sugar. I'm not sure the point of peas and carrots & such. Maybe the vitamins, which are probably mostly cooked out anyway. Pumpkin and similar for fiber. That's a controversy. Since I feed a variety, I just don't get too concerned if 10% of what I feed happens to have pumpkin.

Again, as a supplement, I see no point. Unless they like them. Then they become a snack. Just don't get carried away with it. My one cat likes tomatoes so he gets a little. I don't care if they chase a few peas around. The one loves to grab bread crusts and run off with it. So as an occasion snack cause the cat likes it is one thing. But doing it intentional as a supplement, no point.

So ignore grains and veggies of any kind in a supplemental diet. Got it. I think that'll actually make things easier for me.

I talked about that some in my other post. I think a raw diet is probably really great for cats, simply cause without cooking meat, it comes a heck of a lot closer to the way they would naturally eat. However, you have to be so careful with that, and be dedicated to it. So you either do it or you don't. And I don't. I know myself too well and I'm just a little too much on the lazy side.

But as a supplement, I think I probably covered that in the other post. I would just add to be careful with the raw - just little tiny bits at first, especially an older cat that isn't used to it. They might not even eat it. They get spoiled by fake sprayed-on-dry food flavorings and forget what real food is.

I think I'll mainly do cooked, since it's easier to freeze and store. Raw can be a treat every now and then.

What's your take on getting hearts, livers, or other organs from a butcher? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

[morgaine300]

Best Way - Cost-Effective Homemade Cat Food | eHow.com
(not the kibble recipe)

The problem is that the guy thinks the kibble recipe is OK, so do I trust his opinion? No. I trust no one who makes a recipe consisting of this:
"Combine 3 cups whole wheat flour, 2 cups soy flour, 1 cup wheat germ, 1 cup cornmeal and 1/2 cup brewer's yeast in a bowl and mix it. Add 5 tbsp. vegetable oil, 1 tbsp. cod liver oil, 2 cups water and a 15-oz. can of mackerel to the dry ingredients and stir them together to form a dough."

That's called kitty carb-high with some fish thrown in, which is not the best meat to begin with. There's like no supplements in this.

As for the other "recipe" - it's not a diet! What's with all the rice and carrots? Glycemia city. And where's the supplements? Was this what you thought was a diet? This is meant to be a snack, not a diet. Yes, the cat can eat it for a few days, but if you're low on food for say a few weeks, you can't use this.

(Truthfully, I'm afraid to look at the rest at this point, but I will. I'm having issues looking at anything called "Yummy" something - sounds like someone who has no clue. But I'll keep an open mind until I get there.

How to Make Homemade Food for Your Cat | eHow.com

More rice and veggies. No supplements. This isn't a diet. So far you haven't found a diet. You're finding what appear to be little snack things. You have to supplement even raw, let alone cooked. I find it extremely scary that the blurbs these people are writing on these are implying you can use these to replace buying commercial food. Really, really spooky. And dangerous.

How to Prepare Raw & Healthy Cat Food at Home | eHow.com

Well, now, finally! This one. I trust this one for two reasons. One, just as soon as I saw the ingredient list and how the person talked, it just sounded more reasonable and more like what a raw diet oughta look like. That still didn't tell me if the details were OK. It looked darned familiar as well, so I went back to the top to see where it came from. Dr. Hodgkins. She is one of the foremost leading vets in diabetic research, and due to the connection between diabetes and food, she also got greatly into nutrition research. I know who she is (not personally) and I would trust her diet.

But notice it's everything I said it would be. There's even the taurine in the raw, and notice the $200 grinder you need. And you CANNOT tweak these recipes unless you're someone like her that knows what she's doing.

Cat Food Recipes, Cat Treat Recipes
(haven't really narrowed this site down at all)

I have a hard time trusting anything that looks that cutesy. But again, these aren't diets. They're snacks. At least they've made a point of saying they're snacks. Just glancing over it, I'd say you don't want to mess with them, and I can guarantee this isn't someone who knows anything about cat nutrition or they wouldn't be making snacks with macaroni in them. I can just tell this type of snack recipes - I've seen them before. There'll be the occasional one that's worth something, but the person doling these out mostly has no clue.

If you want snacks, just meat is fine. (I know of some good snacks, but they'd be expensive relatively speaking. Like Halo's Liv-a-Littles freeze dried meats.) If you really want, I can go through and tell you which ones I think would be appropriate if you get a big kick out of making your cat snacks. (But since the idea was to have some food around for when the cash is low, I don't get the point of the snacks.)

No Cans - Make Yummy Fish Meals for Your Cats

Where to start? First, tuna. Tuna as a diet will kill your cat. Tuna in a commercial canned food is Ok since it's supplemented but isn't appropriate as too much of a diet. Tuna out of a can is OK for an occasional treat. I mean, maybe a little piece any time you make yourself some tuna salad. If your cat isn't already hooked on the stuff, it's just a good idea to stay way from it. While it's great protein, too many bad things. Then there's the fact that it has more rice than tuna. HUH? Margarine? Garbage with junk in it. Cream? Well, there's the egg. You were going to supplement with that anyway.

And again, this is not a diet! This is a snack. And a crappy one at that.

No Cans - Make Yummy Food Your Cats with Chicken and Beef

This, just, wow. Macaroni. I think that was the snack I found on the other page. No, just no. And again, not a diet.

This is actually worse than what I expected. These aren't diets, except for the one. Again, I find it scary people are putting this stuff up and implying these are good meals for a cat. Or at least, some of them have implied these are replacements for store-bought food.

Except for the ones with the tons of grains and veggies and that stuff, you can make some of these as supplements if you like. But these aren't meals, diets. You can't use these for when you run out of cash.

The only appropriate one is Dr. Hodgkins'. If you'll go back to one of my first posts, I included a link (catinfo.org) that has a raw diet, which is very, very much like this one. In other words, you already had a link to an appropriate raw diet, that I said at the time I didn't think would work out given finances and such. So this raw diet won't be any different.

If the sites like the ones above are where you are getting your info, I see what the problem is.

Hmm, just scrolled down the page on that last one. Also looked around at some of the other stuff. (Like diets for sick cats and whatnot.) What is this hangup with sticking rice in everything? And one said to "supplement to get the MDR for a cat"... um, sure, I go to the lab and have this diet analyzed to see what it needs... how do they expect you to do that on your own?

OK, I'm going to bed this time. Really, I am. Already way late, I'm still hungry, and Sunday is a hectic work day.

[morgaine300]

I don't I said bed, but this'll be short.

the chocolate I already knew about. I think I remember someone mentioning cinnamon, but I see no reason why I would give a cat cinnamon, anyway.

Perhaps because it's good for people I think. While there are commonalities between humans and cats, in fact quite a few, there are also things which are opposites. But people tend to think if it works for a human, it works for a cat.

I think I'll mainly do cooked, since it's easier to freeze and store. Raw can be a treat every now and then.

Well, as you'll see from the other post, the cooked is only going to be a treat. Although you could use those for maybe two or three days and be OK.

what's your take on getting hearts, livers, or other organs from a butcher? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

If you mean the guts themselves, they're good. Not for a full meal cause they need muscle meat as well, but they're good. If you mean the butcher -- um, if you cook it, I don't see a problem. If it's raw, depends on where it came from. Just cause it's a "butcher" doesn't necessarily make it all right. However, if he's honest, you might get some info from him.

[hheath541]

Thanks. I didn't really trust that most of those recipes would be OK as they are. I just wanted a second opinion. I think I'll stick with the one form the dr you know of. Since I have no experience in this, I will bow to your superior knowledge.

As for the organs; if I get the apartment I'm after, there's a butcher right down the street that my boss knows and trusts to have good meat. I figured it wouldn't hurt to see if he has any organs I could get for treats. I'll be sure to ask questions when I'm getting them. Find out what animal they're from (probably stick to poultry, at least partially because they'll be in naturally smaller portions) and how long ago they were butchered.

You've been a big help. I'm glad I decided to ask here, instead of trying to figure it out on my own, even if it did start as everyone telling me that I'm an idiot who shouldn't be allowed to have pets.

I'm sure I'll have more questions once I can finally get started. I'll be sure to bring them here before making decisions on my own.

[hheath541]

I hope you don't think I was withholding information by waiting so long to explain that I wanted to be able to use food stamps to buy the food. I'm just tired of people automatically assuming that since I get food stamps that I must be either a bum who wants nothing more than to have everything handed to me, or too stupid to do anything for myself.

I have been going through the public aid sector of the government, and private organizations, for the past 5 months. I have been treated like a 5 year old, talked down to, had my questions and concerns ignored, and generally treated like I am incapable of wiping my own butt, let alone understanding simple english.

The most common response after talking to me for a few minutes is, 'wow, you don't seem needy at all.' after that I get treated like I'm just trying to milk the system for money I am too intelligent to need.

I am not an idiot. I am not a bum. I am not out to make everyone else pay for me. I have just been handed the sh!t end of the stick recently and am desperately working to do what I can to turn things around.

Six months ago, I was living with friends and 9 cats. Two of them were mine. Six of them I had known since birth, or close to it. Then, all of a sudden, I had no friends, no home, and no kitties. Nothing. I spent the first week crying at the mere thought or sight of an animal.

I still have no home and no kitties, and very few friends. I want, desperately, to be able to have a kitty again once I have a home again. I know it's going to be hard, but I'm willing to put in the time, money, and effort to make it work.

I want to be able to give this poor, homeless kitty a home, and hopefully gain a life-long friend. I want to have a kitty again, even though she will never replace the ones I left behind. I want to give her the same chance I'm getting, to have a place to call home. I want someone there to greet me when I get home, and give me a reason to get up in the morning. I want someone to need and want me around. I want a friend I can hug when I need to. I need that in my life right now.

OK, now that I've gone completely off topic and made myself cry, I think I'm going to try to get some sleep.