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torsionman · Feb 2, 2010, 02:47 PM

Mine is stuck like so many others in this category. I have NO access to it under or behind the tub. I am a mechanic and had an idea for removing the plunger. Has anyone ever used an automobile body dent puller to pull up on the plunger? (Please bear with me) I've removed a number of stuck nut and bolt assemblies in the past using WD-40 as the release agent. Many times I've had to "work" the nut or bolt back and forth to coax them apart. This is due to rust and debris built up in the threads. Well, the plunger has debris around it as well. Getting it to move up and down once frozen isn't as easy.
So the idea of the dent puller came to mind. To push it down is the other problem. Is there anything that is available to place down the overflow tube through the top bend in the opening that won't bend itself as I tap down on the plunger? I don't want to damage the drain assembly as it will require removing the tub itself! Gentle coaxing is what I'm trying for. A suitable rod to push down is what I'm looking for. Thanks for your time and suggestions.
This question WILL be followed up with results posted here.

afaroo · Feb 2, 2010, 03:33 PM

You are asking us how to remove the stuck plunger or you tell us that use the automobile body dent puller, I am not sure if it will work but lets wait if some of the experts has any experience with.

To remove a stuck plunger you need to have access to the back side of the Tub drain and waste overflow tube, see the image, Thanks.

John

torsionman · Feb 2, 2010, 03:52 PM

Thanks John.
This drawing is almost exactly like the Gerber drawing I printed from their site. As a mechanic I know what it's supposed to do and many of the videos and suggestions are good however, I've not seen an original poster come back and describe what fix they actually had to use. I'm also looking for that solid rod for pushing the plunger down.
I suppose I'm trying to be the "plumber" and hope that someone that answers is a real life plumber and has had to actually DO this before with success. At what point should I admit defeat?
Fred

mygirlsdad77 · Feb 2, 2010, 04:26 PM

You can use the linkage that hooks to the plunger to force down on the plunger, but you don't get a whole lot of leverage or force this way. All you can do is pull on that likage with some force( the dent remover sounds like a good idea, since it would be more of a hammer action vs sheer force). Best case, it breaks free and you get it out. Worst case, the linkage breaks off the plunger,(this is wear you admitt defeat,lol) then you are out of luck. (or has the linkage already broken?). Usually in this instance, you will need to do as John said, and gain access to the back or bottom of the tub, but you said that is not an option, ouch. Are you sure there isn't a way to access the waste and overflow from the backside of the wall? They had to get the waste and overflow on somehow, and its usually done after the tub is set. May require cutting a hole in some sheet rock, but better than pulling the tub.

torsionman · Feb 2, 2010, 04:38 PM

The back side is from the apartment main stairwell and the botton is from my downstairs neighbor's bathroom. The former owner had to pay to release a lien to sell this unit due to water damage from the old dishwasher leakage. The people are nice to me but keep to themselves most of the time. If I can help it, I don't want to cause ANY damage to their ceiling. The drain was installed some 40 years ago with the tub when the building was built. The original shower valves were Price Pfister and I think the tub drains were Gerber as it has a Gerber overflow plate on it. The tub is original so the drain is too. I don't have a dent puller at present. I'm working on that part.

mygirlsdad77 · Feb 2, 2010, 04:49 PM

Okay, so access is not impossible, but a hassle. Im with you on this. Do everything possible to get that sucker out, brute force if necessary. Before you start, go have a talk with the neighbors and let them know your situation, and let them know you are doing everything possible to avoid having to go into their space to do repairs. Who owns the building now? Or are the units separately owned? If your area is rented, time to get ahold of the landlord and have him take care of this problem. If you own your own space, you will have to work with the neighbors as best as possible. If you do have to cut into the other peoples walls or ceiling, just let them know that you will fix any and all damage. This is a sticky situation, and I hope you can just get the plunger broke free. Keep us posted. Good luck. Lee.

torsionman · Feb 2, 2010, 04:51 PM

Thanks Lee,
You hit the nail (plunger) on the head.
Fred

torsionman · Feb 4, 2010, 06:06 AM

Plunger is still stuck. Are there any experienced (in removing plunger) experts out there? My unit is owned although many units are rented, a mixed bag here. The folks downstairs from me should be owners. I'm about to get very inventive here.

afaroo · Feb 4, 2010, 08:24 AM

At this point The only thing that I know is to gain access to the back side of the Tub drain and waste overflow tube and disassemble that you be able to remove the plunger, good luck.

John

KISS · Feb 4, 2010, 02:50 PM

I had to do the same, but fortunately I had access. It was just recently replaced and it got STUCK within 6 mo to a year.

It took MAJOR banging from below to free it. Then I had to rotary sand the inside and lubricate with plumber's grease.

torsionman · Feb 4, 2010, 03:29 PM

KISS, was your drain a brass one? Rotary sand?? Did you have hard water deposits? The plumber's grease is normal though I never knew about it until this problem. I never knew a tub drain needed a "tune up" like a car. BTW, anyone reading this, I am a garage door and opener mechanic and wastewater treatment plant operator. At some point I'll figure out how to put that on my screen name.
Fred

KISS · Feb 4, 2010, 03:45 PM

Yep, a brass gate from Lowe's. The previous one lasted nearly 50 years before I replaced it. I had to cut the shoe off when I replaced it the first time. It still takes a fair amount of effort to pull up.

General poor workmanship.

Hard water, probably not, but hair and goop yep.

The initial replacement was due to perforating. Then there was an alignment issue to deal with. Galvanized trap. Replaced with brass with a plastic tail piece and a flex clamp.

Milo recommends the cable activated ones.

massplumber2008 · Feb 4, 2010, 05:59 PM

Torsionman...

Why are you messing with the plunger assembly at all? Does the tub drain well? If the tub drains well at this point you may be able to install a new toe touch tub stopper... see image.

This can usually be swapped out for the old tub shoe strainer assembly. Here, you would need to remove the strainer assembly and install the new tub stopper. Then you replace the trip lever face plate with a blanked face plate and you're all set here... ;)

Finally, if your tub isn't draining well then you will definitely at least want to talk to your neighbors (as MGD suggested) and let them know that the work could become more involved and you just want to give them as much notcie as possible before proceeding with other options. I have an idea or two to try but they are last resort and could create issues as much as fix an issue...

Let us know more... OK?

MARK

torsionman · Feb 4, 2010, 09:19 PM

The tub does not drain well. In order to snake the P trap, doesn't the plunger need to be removed and the snake be run down the overflow tube? The toe stopper would work but the drain is still very slow... the plunger is not closed judging from the downward direction of the handle on the overflow plate.
Fred

afaroo · Feb 5, 2010, 01:13 AM

Hello Fred,

Sorry in your case there is no other way to remove the plunger from the tube unless you get access to it, Thanks.

John

massplumber2008 · Feb 5, 2010, 06:49 AM

Hey Fred...

A couple thoughts come to mind here...

First thing I would try at this point would be to remove the cover plate and put a wetted rag into the overflow tube... push it down hard into the overflow tube, but not so hard that it dislodges the overflow tube. Now, run water into the tub to about a 2" depth. Then you will hold the wetted rag into the overflow tube and use a PLUNGER to plunge away at the drain pipe. Push/pull with suction on the plunger and hopefully that will improve the flow of the drainpipe. If it does, then you can opt. to simply replace the strainer assembly with the new toe touch stopper and new face plate and move on from this...:)

If that fails to work, then my last resort effort would be to go to home depot and purchase a piece of 1/4" threaded rod and a piece of 3/8" threaded rod....

You will prebend the 3/8" rod in a manner that allows you to insert it into the overflow tube and try to push down on the plunger assembly... tap with hammer if necessary, but be real careful and don't tap too hard here or you could damage the tubing behind the wall.

If you are successful in dislodging the plunger then you can bend one end of the 1/4" threaded rod into a tight U shape and then try to prebend it and stick it down into the tube and try to grab the plunger itself and pull it up and out... takes a bit to do, but can be done.

If you're lucky this will work for you... if not, as has been stated, you will simply need to gain access to the overflow piping by cutting a hole into the hallway wall at the end of the tub and work from there to fix this issue.

Let us know how you make out...

MARK

KISS · Feb 5, 2010, 07:15 AM

Why don't you ask about putting in an access panel in the stairwell. It can be lockable if need be?

torsionman · Feb 5, 2010, 03:50 PM

Thanks guys, many suggestions you've sent are appreciated. I have my other shower going again... it needs tile work or a plastic surround. I'm getting creative with this problem. I'm not around this weekend but next week the effort begins in ernest and I'll let you know how it works out even if it fails.
Mark, I used to live in Hopkinton, you know, the town that sends you those pesky runners every year and screws up the traffic into Boston.
Fred

torsionman · Feb 5, 2010, 03:50 PM

Thanks guys, many suggestions you've sent are appreciated. I have my other shower going again... it needs tile work or a plastic surround. I'm getting creative with this problem. I'm not around this weekend but next week the effort begins in ernest and I'll let you know how it works out even if it fails.
Mark, I used to live in Hopkinton, you know, the town that sends you those pesky runners every year and screws up the traffic into Boston.
Fred