[Nzou]

I have been reading a book on catholic doctrine and came across a passage that was explaining the positions of the priests and the pope. It said the priests are the descendants of Jesus' disciples. The pope is the descendant of peter... The most intriguing part was that the church believes that the popes teachings are infallible. I just want to see how other people view this. My view is that probably the pope being "a descendand of peter is guided by the holy spirit and so speaks with the help of the holy spirit." I am born catholic but I now want to understand my church and make that decision to stay or leave.

[ROLCAM]

The technical words are:-
EX CATTEDRA.
When the pope speaks " ex cattedra"
His utterances are definitely infallible.
This is the official belief of THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

[rosemcs]

The Pope is infallible in regards to faith and morals, but claims no infallibility on matters outside of faith and morals.

To be infallible the pope must:

a) speak from the chair of Peter; that is, in his official capacity.

b) make the decision or pronouncement be binding on the whole Church.

c) be on a matter of faith or morals.

The pope is not infallible when he speaks as a private teacher. The pope's infallibility does not mean he is incapable of moral wrongdoing or sin. Out of 264, only about 6 were known to have questionable character.

If the Catholic Church is not infallible then there is nothing with which to rely on in order to insure knowledge of religious truth. A fallible Church means the fullness of truth is lost, for there is no other assurance that the religion is true.

Anyway, there are a lot of Catholic bashers out there, but it has many beautiful supernatural teachings. You may want to look into Scott Hahn's writings on why he left the Protestant Church to join the Catholic Church in Rome Sweet Home.
http://www.scotthahn.com/dr-hahns-favorites.html

[Athos]

Since only two teachings have been declared infallible, it's hard to say. They are the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the Immaculate Conception (Mary born without sin).

These teachings are impossible to logically falsify so the doctrine of infallibility does not lend itself to any kind of critical examination.

Outside of Catholicism (and even within by many parties), the doctrine is not only not believed, but is ridiculed.

It is one of those things you believe on faith, and not on any kind of evidence or proof.

Non-Catholic Christianity is equally based on non-provable dogmas lacking evidence or proof (in the generally accepted definitions of these terms) so don't key on the Catholics as unique in these matters.

[Alty]

The pope is just a man, as are all priests. Men, just like the men that wrote the bible.

If you believe in the bible then we're all descendants of Adam and Eve. That doesn't make us any less human.

The Pope is a man that became a priest, lived a long time, moved his way up in the church and was voted (by other men) to be Pope.

[Nzou]

@altenweng: Also talking about who wrote the bible, do you acknowledge that it was written by men, with God's inspiration but still the writters had their own opinions or views as well? Some people say that the catholic has its own bible all because of the books of the apocripha, what are these books exactly, did the church add extra books to the common bible or what?

[ROLCAM]

Nzou,

During the A.D. 1500's, some Protestant scholars became concerned that the Old Testament contained books not found in the Hebrew Bible. The scholars removed these books from the Old Testament and called them Apocrypha. For this reason, the Protestant Old Testament includes only those writings that form the Hebrew Bible. Some Protestant editions of the Bible include the Apocrypha as a separate section. The word apocrypha comes from a Greek word meaning hidden. Scholars disagree on why the word was applied to these writings.

The list below gives the titles and order of the books in the Revised Standard Version of the Apocrypha.

1 Esdras

2 Esdras

Tobit

Judith

Additions to the Book of Esther

Wisdom of Solomon

Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach

Baruch

Letter of Jeremiah

Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Young Men

Susanna (Additions to Daniel)

Bel and the Dragon

Prayer of Manasseh

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees

The Roman Catholic Old Testament includes all of these books except 1 and 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh. The Letter of Jeremiah, Prayer of Azaria, and Bel and the Dragon occur as additions to Old Testament books. The Greek Orthodox Old Testament includes all of the books on this list.

[Nzou]

Okay... What about praying through saints and declaring a person to be a saint. How can a man come to say that another is a saint? Didn't Jesus say "i am the way the truth and the light..."
Someone once asked me why we get baptised as infants, when we do not know what will be happening. Isn't baptism supposed to be one's own choice? Wasn't Jesus baptsed when he was old enough to make decisions (not sure about the exact age)?
Such questions, I can't answer but would love to be in a position to answer.

[sndbay]

Okay... What about praying through saints and declaring a person to be a saint. How can a man come to say that another is a saint? didnt Jesus say "i am the way the truth and the light..."

It is written: Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. No man come to the Father but by Me. (John 14:6)

Someone once asked me why we get baptised as infants, when we do not know what will be hapening. Isnt baptism suposed to be one's own choice?

It is written: what hinders me to be baptized? Replied answer, confession in belief of Christ Jesus the Son of God. (Acts 8:36-37)

Wasnt Jesus baptsed wen he was old enough to make decisions (not sure about the exact age)?

Yes and submerge in water, as we are to be baptized in likeness of the flood of Noah, gifted with the Holy Spirit, begotten again in Christ, dead with Christ and the world of sin, and buried with Christ able to raise as He was raised. Having a good conscience toward God (Acts 13:33 1stPeter 1:3 Romans 6:8 Romans 6:4 1stPeter 3:20-21)

such questions, i can't answer but would love to be in a position to answer.

Please be assured if the heart of love is willing, Christ Jesus stands at the door ready to come in, and give sup with you. (Rev 3:20)

It is written: Study to shew yourself approved in the mist of God, being a good servant that needs not to be ashamed, and willing to rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)


Please be aware that we are not to judge the pope or any man. Christ is the judge, and each man will stand before Christ in judgement of their righteousness.

Stay awake and watch to the last word that is spoken by all men

Begin studying in wisdom with the Book of Proverbs, and bookmark the scripture referances above. Prayer in request to be all God created you to be, in His strength to do His will, evil bow down and flee from you. In Jesus name Amen


God grace be with you
~in Christ

[Alty]

@altenweng: Also talking about who wrote the bible, do you acknowledge that it was writen by men, with God's inspiration but still the writters had their own opinions or views as well? Some people say that the catholic has its own bible all because of the books of the apocripha, what are these books exactly, did the church add extra books to the common bible or what?

I believe that the bible was written by men, without the inspiration of God. If God had inspired it then it would be perfect, it isn't, because it was written by fallible men. That's my belief.

The Church is also run by fallible men. The church is rich, but they want us to believe that they're only there to serve the masses, the believers. So why the need for money? It's a business, a multimillion dollar business, run by men that were supposed to give up all worldly possessions when they became priests. I don't know about you, but I don't live half as well as these men.

It's an extremely well run institution, Donald Trump could take lessons from them. They use peoples fear, their faith, their willingness to believe in something.

If you believe the bible, then you believe that Jesus preached to word on the streets, to anyone that wanted to listen, rich, poor, thieves, whores, you name it. But today's churches rival most mansions. Why? It's mans greed.

Again, this is just what I believe and I realize that the majority of the people that post on this forum believe the opposite.

[sndbay]

The Bible

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

[rosemcs]

Okay... What about praying through saints and declaring a person to be a saint. How can a man come to say that another is a saint? didnt Jesus say "i am the way the truth and the light..."
Someone once asked me why we get baptised as infants, when we do not know what will be hapening. Isnt baptism suposed to be one's own choice? Wasnt Jesus baptsed wen he was old enough to make decisions (not sure about the exact age)?
such questions, i can't answer but would love to be in a position to answer.

In response to your questions:

1. Saints are people that are recognized by the Church to be examples for people to follow. Catholics do not have to pray to them, but they acknowledge that these people lived their lives according to the Catholic religion. They are role models that are in heaven with God as His friends and are believed to have some influence on asking God to send more graces on those that ask. Saints are required to have a number of miracles documented by doctors and scientists before the Church will consider them. Yes, all are called to be saints, but not as many live to a heroic degree, as some even have been killed for their faith.

2. Yes, Catholics are not required to be baptized as babies, they can wait until they are adults to make that choice. Many parents believe that their child will go to heaven if they die before the age of reason. As all are born with Original Sin from Adam and Eve, without Baptism, the Church teaches that they may be happy in a place without God, but not quite reaching a higher height of heaven... so why risk it? As a person gets older, they always have the free will to change their mind.

[Fr_Chuck]

Sadly those that don't understand the teachings of the Catholic church have decided to confuse the issue of what your answers are to the question.

** assuming you really wanted to know about catholic teachings, which is surprising since you claim to be catholic and should know these things.

But as noted, the Pope can be wrong except in those few cases when specific teachings are proclaimed from his official office.

And of course catholics don't pray to saints, this is common knowledge but one where non catholics mislead people over because they refuse to understand the teachings of the church.

Also please understand many other churches besides the catholic church reconises saints, in fact the majority of all christians do, And the majority of Christian churches baptise infants.

So why people pick the catholics for this and don't seem to address the Anglican or the Lutheran or others is beyond me

[rosemcs]

And of course catholics don't pray to saints, this is common knowledge but one where non catholics mislead people over because they refuse to understand the teachings of the church.

Correction-Catholics do pray to saints as there are tons of Novenas to various saints... St. Therese of the Little Flower, St. Jude, etc. You are praying for them to intercede to God for an intention. You are not worshipping a saint as God though.

[J_9]

And of course catholics don't pray to saints, this is common knowledge but one where non catholics mislead people over because they refuse to understand the teachings of the church.

Possibly the Unity Catholic Church does not pray to the saints. But, as a Roman Catholic, I do.

I say the Hail Mary

I say the Litany of Saints

People pray to St Jude daily.

So, yes, Catholics do pray to saints.

http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=178

[Nzou]

But what can a dead person do, isn't it that when one dies communication with the real world ceases and there is nothing he can do for us. Al that he awaits is judgement day. Praying through saints confuses me a lot.
@Fr_Chuck. At our parish I did my catechism when I was only 9. I only memorised the teachings without any understanding, that's why I'm asking now. I need to understand so that I can be stronger in faith and also so that I can explain to others.

[Unknown008]

But today's churches rival most mansions. Why? It's mans greed.

I need to say that it is not the case everywhere. I know people who do preach to anybody, regardless of their social status, and not expecting anything in return, but that they succeed in making the right decision (that is to believe and follow Jesus, or not).

[Unknown008]

Nzou, I had a thread some months ago about praying to saints... it was closed because of too many disagreements of beliefs. You can have a look, if you want.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...-388867-4.html

It initially started about statues, and then towards saints. I hope that you'll find the answers you're looking for. I know the thread is quite long :o

[arcura]

Nzou,
Only rarely has the pope spoken from Peter's Chair infallibly.
If I remember right it has been done only three times as guided by the Holy Spirit.
Yes Catholics pray to saints to ask them to pray to God for them.
That is not much different that for me to ask a friend or pastor to pray for me.
The saints in heaven are our brothers and sisters in Christ and therefore close to the throne of God and they are far more righteous that be mortals here on this planet.
Therefore they have much more influence than we doe.
It is all a part of "the communion of saints".
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Unknown008]

Therefore they have much more influence than we doe.

I would like you to support this. I'm having a doubt here :(