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malene51 · Nov 24, 2009, 03:06 PM

In May of this year, our water association issued a bill for over 60,000 gallons of water, for one month. Our typical usage is 5,000 to 7,500 gallons. We complained and they came out to check a valve. The next month, the meter read over 70,000 gallons. We demanded that they replace the meter. Immediately, our water usage showed the normal average of about 5,400 gallons. We requested they test the meter, which they did (twice!) and both times the meter passed the test. This is a Precision E-series meter. They are requiring that we pay the bill because they're saying we used the water. There was no water leak on our property, we didn't have anyone come to repair anything, and yet, usage went back to normal when the meter was changed.

We don't want to have to pay this bill -- is there anyone out there who can give us some ammunition to fight the association over this? We'd appreciate any help we can get...

Thanks... :(

ballengerb1 · Nov 24, 2009, 03:08 PM

What state do you live in? Illinois for example has CUB the citizens utility board which is a state prganized group who will negotiate or fight a utility company on your behalf.

malene51 · Nov 24, 2009, 03:38 PM

We live in rural New Mexico. Unfortunately, water associations in rural New Mexico are not governed or overseen by any state agency. I have called my Senator and my County Commissioner and am in conversations with the Environmental Protection Agency in New Mexico, which also has a consumer protection division. I'm just wondering what would cause this kind of "spike" and why water usage would go back to normal with no change except a new meter. I wonder if that much water actually passed through the meter, or if the gears simply weren't working correctly and recalibrated themselves (somehow) when it was removed for testing.

ballengerb1 · Nov 24, 2009, 04:35 PM

Well it could be that is then doing the test. Do not be fooled into thinking no one regulates the water company. All companies in all states are regulated by someone. In Illinois we have a commerce commission, not sure if New Mexico has one but someone licenses them to do business in your state. In the meantime do not agree to pay them anything more than your normal bill and start gathering all past bills you can find.

malene51 · Nov 24, 2009, 04:44 PM

Thank you. I have historic use from April, 1990 to the present, showing usage for each month... that should make it a little easier. I've also requested that I be able to address their Board... if that doesn't work, I may have to resort to legal means, but I hate to do that... it takes forever and costs lots more!

ballengerb1 · Nov 24, 2009, 05:54 PM

Should not cost you a dime at this point. They are asking you for the money so what do you think you could do to them in court, nothing at this point. They could try to take you to court but would likely shut off your water first.

KISS · Nov 24, 2009, 06:07 PM

OK.

1. A leak. There is a leak dial on the water meter to help you determine that. Leaks don't have to be visible.

2. Air. Air counts just like water does. Air eliminators can be added.

So, you need to turn off the output of the meter and look at the leak detector dial. It doesn't have units, but it will show the smallest of leaks.

Once you have determined that there are no leaks to the meter, then turn off everything in the house. Look for leaks on the leak detect dial. Without using any water, mark the dials (post it tape) and don't use any water overnight and make sure it doesn't move.

A leaking toilet valve or an always backflushing water softener are places to look.

ballengerb1 · Nov 24, 2009, 06:09 PM

All correct KISS but they already have a new meter in place so can't check the old meter, water company took it.

KISS · Nov 24, 2009, 06:43 PM

Looks like I missed that. Pipe replacement, flushing of mains would also show a good meter and poor consumption.

malene51 · Nov 25, 2009, 09:44 AM

It appears several consumers experienced the same problem at the same time we did... Association thinks it's possible some construction company(ies) pirated the water. Can't really prove that. They have agreed to place a lock on our water line (at no cost to us) so we can shut off if we're gone for any length of time, and have agreed to extend payment period so it won't be such a burden to us. About the best we can do without taking them to court. It appears they'll be placing a lot of these locks on their system! Not the best solution, but at least it maintained some semblance of cordiality and a working relationship which might stand us in good stead in the future. I would recommend everyone put locks on their system, because it would then be a lot easier to determine if there are leaks. Funny aside: the general manager asked if I would like him to use a divining rod to see where the leaks might be! Uh, no...

KISS · Nov 25, 2009, 11:15 AM

The weird part of all this is that you get bills about every 3 months and by the time the damage is done, "they" are long gone.

In typical residential, you have curb stp, pipe underground, valve, meter, valve.

We hear water in the pipes if someone is using the outside hose.

Now suppose you sent on vacation, and someone opened the tap and never shut it off from inside.

What do you get? Stolen water.

ballengerb1 · Nov 25, 2009, 04:18 PM

This is kind of weird, at least around here. Our meter is about the last thing before water is distributed inside the home. Anyone tapping into an outside line would get unmetered water which would never show up on a bill

KISS · Nov 25, 2009, 05:35 PM

That's just it, the water is metered and then those stop cocks to water the flowers are accessible from outside, water droplets counted.

Leaks before the meter and in your home are your responsibility even though you won't be billed for the leak.

The meters are located inside, but are read via radio frequency by drive by trucks.

I did work in a building where the metering was done by subtraction. No direct meter for one building. You had total and amount going to Y building, so you could figure x.

malene51 · Nov 30, 2009, 09:23 AM

Our pipes begin at the meter on our side of the property, so anybody could tap into anything - including outside faucets. The water company will put the stop cock on our side (even though they're not supposed to!) They also called me last week and told me they didn't think I should have to pay for stolen water, so they're offsetting the charges for those two months, so I now have a $14 credit on my water bill! There is still justice out there, praise the Lord!