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nathanbgross · Sep 16, 2009, 03:11 PM

My upstairs unit is not cooling. I had someone come out and test the pressure/freon level and they said I have no freon. They wanted to add freon w/o identifying where the leak was and charge me $130 to do it... both of which I thought was crazy!

The repairman said that 99% of the time the leak is in the condenser unit which is upstairs in my attic since it's a split system... does that seem reasonable? He also said it would be really expensive to find the leak and replace it if it was in the condenser. But the unit is only 3 years old and would still be covered under parts warranty, so I guess I'd only pay for the labor... any idea what that might cost? Any suggestions on where else the leak might be and/or what I should expect from a different repair person?

At any rate, I obviously have a leak and I'd really appreciate the advice of experts or other folks that have had this issue repaired on what the right steps and ballpark costs to fix would be. Thanks!

mygirlsdad77 · Sep 16, 2009, 03:51 PM

Can't give you a ballpark price here. All depends on how long it takes to find the leak(and yes, the leak must be found and fixed). Depending on how small of a leak it is, it could take many many hours to locate. Then you have the additional cost of repairing or replacing equiptment that is leaking(evap coil, conderser coil, comressor, line set, so on so forth. It may cost you a bundle, but if you have to have the system recharged every year, or even more often, it will pay for itself in a matter of a few years,(not to mention the illegal action of knowingly letting refrigerant into atmosphere).

nathanbgross · Sep 16, 2009, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the response MyGirlsDad! Is it common for a unit that's about 3 years old to fail like this? Shouldn't at least the part be covered under warranty? Thanks.

mygirlsdad77 · Sep 16, 2009, 05:07 PM

All depends, if it is a factory leak, possibly will be covered by warranty, if installer leak(such as brazing)most likely they will not warranty their work, as most installers only warranty their work for one year. It also depends on how willing your installer is to fight for warranty from his supplier or manufacture.

I wouldn't say it's a common problem for factory components to leak within three years, but it does happen. Not much you can do about it but hope they will stand behind their product.

nathanbgross · Sep 17, 2009, 01:37 PM

Hi, I had a technician out today who did the diagnostics to identify that there was a leak and A LOT of rust on the evaporator coil housed inside the air handler in my attic. He was very surprised at the amount of rust on a unit that is less than 4 years old but was able to see that identify that the leak was coming from the evaporator coil. Could be a leak elsewhere in the overall system I suppose, but that's where he was able to at least identify what he believed to be the prime contributor to my current issues. That said, the actual part is still covered by Carrier so I can get a warranty replacement on the part and I would just need to pay for the labor to have someone change out the part and install the replacement and then to refill me for freon.

Does anyone have any idea as to the ballpark cost I'd be looking at for the labor to replace the evaporator coil? I've gotten one quote for $1000 for just the labor which seemed insane to me, so I'd love to benchmark with other folks on what they're experience has been. Thanks!

hvac1000 · Sep 17, 2009, 06:05 PM

I suggest you check with other dealers in your area for prices. The reason for this is the fact that the price will vary from city to city and state to state by a wide margin and there is no way we can know the costs in your area. I was shocked lately by a simple furnace replacement price from an area in New York that was twice the cost here.

Your job consists of pumping down the system, replacing the evaporator coil then a good Vacuum and a release of the stored gas in the outside condenser. The operating pressures will then need to be checked and adjusted if necessary since the coil might not be the exact one you originally had in your system. It sounds simple but there is more to this than meets the eye.

mygirlsdad77 · Sep 17, 2009, 06:46 PM

You can use the condensing unit compressor to pumpdown only when there is no leak. When there is a leak in the evap coil, pumping refrigerant into condernser will allow air to be pulled in through the leak in evap coil. I suggest closing condenser isolation valves , then reclaim all refrigerant in line set and evap coil. Then they will need to do a nitrogen purge while brazing in the new evap coil. Then vacuum system , open valves on condenser and add refrigerant by subcooling our superheat methods.

nathanbgross · Sep 17, 2009, 07:08 PM

MyGirlsDad --- Wow, that was very technical advice! :) I will ensure I pass that onto the tech that I ultimately have do this job because I'm sure he'll be able to translate it. In layman's terms, I took it to mean that they need to be very careful with how the drain the refrigerant from the system... but what are the ramifications if they don't do it the way you've outlined? Thanks!

hvac1000 · Sep 17, 2009, 08:13 PM

Good idea about the pump down. Never gave it any thought since I do not pump down into a vacuum so it never draws air into the system to start with. Many equipment manufactures warn about pumping down into a vacuum so that is why I never did it. It seems medimum temp A/C compressors are not built to withstand that kind of abuse. I usually pump them down to about 5lbs on the gauge then use a recover system for the rest in the lines and coil if there is a possibility of a leak being present. It seems everyone has a different way of doing it.

I will ensure I pass that onto the tech that I ultimately have do this job b/c I'm sure he'll be able to translate it.

If the tech you hire needs this advice you better find another tech that knows what they are doing. LOL Nothing here that any good service tech will learn from since it is standard industry knowledge.

Good luck with your coil job and I hope you get the right person to do the repairs.

mygirlsdad77 · Sep 18, 2009, 03:21 PM

Correct you are HVAC1000.

nathanbgross · Sep 18, 2009, 06:39 PM

OK, new news... had a another repairman out today who used a blacklight to trace the line, connections indoors and outdoors, the outdoor unit/casing/compressor, the air handler, and evaporator coil. He showed me that the 'bad unit' was glowing and the 'good unit' was not... and told me what I saw glowing was the leak detection dye leaking out of my evaporator coil. He didn't do the nitrogen pressure test to pinpoint the leaks because of the cost but said you could see the die at the bottom of the coils spread across there and also on the inside 'pipe' where the beginning of the line from outside connects to the coil... all along that one pipe fitting. Using soap, he couldn't find anything bubbling up to show the exact leak but he said I could either pay him to find the exact leak hole in the hope that it was a single spot that he could patch up for really cheap; or I you could save that $ and use it towards paying for the job to switch out for a new evaporator coil w/ the parts under warranty... he said the second scenario was the most likely one. Would it make sense to do further diagnostics to pinpoint the leak or does it just sound like the smart (but more expensive) course of action is to have the evaporator coil replaced altogether? Thanks a lot.

hvac1000 · Sep 18, 2009, 09:02 PM

Let your wallet be your guide is what I always say. Might as well get the new coil if you have the money.

mygirlsdad77 · Sep 19, 2009, 12:57 PM

I say get the new coil. I just started using the dye injection with black light leak tester at the beginning of this summer, Works great(in the dark). So you know for sure now that the leak is in the coil. Only problem with the dye on leaky evap coils is that it goes everywhere due to condesation and airflow pushing it around the whole coil. I really think you will sleep better at night if you have the complete evap coil replaced. Lee.