[imdana2]

Let me start by saying we laid off/fired this employee . We told her it was due to downsizing and that we couldn't afford her and some other reasons
She wants a letter of reference.

My reasons for not giving one:

She was a part time employee and wasn't always prompt.
She had many personal issues that carried over into her job on a daily basis (ex husband/court/kids etc).
Her cell phone rang constantly.
She sent text messages all day wheile working.
She was in charge of seniding hrs to payroll company and we recently found out she padded her own time sheet(because no one else needed to look at it-we have since had a policy change on that!)
She didn't know Accounting as well as she said she did (She was on a first name basis with Quickbooks technical help and for payroll too)
She was very gossipy and in a small company of under 10 people - you know THAT doesn't go over well!
She couldn't even answer email in a timely manner!


Good points?
She was great with customers- they liked her
She could do well with collections and get money from a stone
She was ALWAYS pleasant
She was always willing to help
She was great on the basic Admin duties
She cleaned well (part of her duties)



Id like to tell het I can't offer a letter of reference but will agree to be a business reference if they call to ask... but even then- don't really want to but will just because I think its better to NOT burn this bridge (Im afraid of non legal repercussions from her friends and family)
Any suggestions on what we could say that told HR people to read between the lines and take it for what it was worth? Or should I just say no?

What do you think?

[JudyKayTee]

Personally - unless you have some sort of vendetta against her and I'm not reading that - I'd give a letter saying three things she did well and then just skip the rest. I also don't give a phone reference without a written authorization - which should be your policy.

If you found her to be detrimental to your business, then I would say you are sorry but you can't give her a letter BECAUSE (A), (B) and (C).

The vast majority of the time I give a good reference (unless the person really was a terrible employee) but if the person was a very bad employee, then I refuse and give the "have your prospective employer send me an authorization" line. I also address why the person was let go with the person at the time of the termination.

[ScottGem]

If you feel uncomfortable about giving her a positive reference, I would tell her, that, even though the reason for her termination was downsizing, she was chosen as one of the people affected because her performance was not up to the standards your company expects. So you don't think using your company as a reference would be a good idea.

[imdana2]

My biggest concern is that she STOLE from us by padding her time sheet. I looked back on her application with us- seems the company she worked for before us went bankrupt- and now Im thinking she may have been a DIRECT result of that and that history may have been repeating itself. (I guess I forgto to add that over the weekend we found a stack of bills almost a foot tall she NEVER paid or even opened)
She was terribe with numbers and should NOT handle any accounting roles and I know she will try to go for those jobs because it's the $$ she needs.

I just don't want to have our reference get her a job where she potentially could destroy yet another company- lukily , our instincts caught it in time an the $500K of errors within our Quickbooks are being resolved by a FT bookeeper who has extensive experience in our line of work (and of course at a might hgher fee to fix HER mistakes). WE are also now forced to be working with an attorney to keep our business from bankruptcy- and Im sure its due in part to her faulty $$ management of our bills and things.

[imdana2]

But again- Id like to add she is a nice person. Probably would make a great receiptonist somewhere or work at a place as a junior office person where she doesn't have authority.

[JudyKayTee]

I don't see how she's a nice person if she appears to not have been doing her job and/or was stealing.

Now that you have added additional info to your original question I would follow Scott's advice.

[imdana2]

I don't see how she's a nice person if she appears to not have been doing her job and/or was stealing.

Now that you have added additional info to your original question I would follow Scott's advice.

She has many good points. I honestly just don't think she thought she WAS stealing... I can go into that further- she would tell us she was coming in Saturdays to 'get caught up'.

We found she was paying herself when we never authorized her to be paid (we believed she was just coming in to get caught up) , and paying herself for lunch and when she was out sick for a week ('but I had been here a year- isn't that a week's vacation?")

Just not the brightest bulb on the tree when it came to common sense BUT great at Customer Service.

She has only asked (so far) in a text message to me and not formally in writing (either by email or letter)

References to me = recommendation and I just can't recommend her for a job involving $$$ - but I COULD if it was something much lower level (receiptionist,junior customer service etc)

[JudyKayTee]

So in your letter of recommendation recommend her for the jobs you think would suit her - receptionist, junior customer service.

I think portential employers read between the lines, anyway, and see what is omitted as well as what is listed.

[ScottGem]

I would not recommend her for a lower level position then she performed for you. That could be misconstrued.

You sound like a very nice person who doesn't like saying disparaging things about someone else. That's all well and good, but you need to consider your business.

I stick by my recommendation. Better off to discourage her from using you as a reference.

[imdana2]

I thik I may just give her the reasons for why I can't recommend her for any type of accounting /office manager/bookkeeping position but would be willing to rpovide verbal reference on a custner servce based position or one with lesser authority- she doesn't HAVE to accept it - but in theis world, we all know you need a reference.

Until she asks me in writing (or soemthing OTHER than a text message... lol) IM not even addressing it with her.
A text message?- that's not too professional in my book. Hopefully she learns from the experience to do to a few things:
* speak up when its over your head- don't TRY to do if you aren't sure how
* ask, ask and then ask again if you aren't sure its correct procedure policy or ethics
* Don't gossip- in a mall company with less than 10 people , words gets back to everyone and the 'he said,she said' wears thin and hurts morale
* IF you are going to be late, take time off, be sick- CALL and be absolutely sure of the repercussions (unpaid, make up time etc) Don't assume anything.

Thanks again

[STG]

Honestly, at least here where I live, the best option is to simply confirm employment... unless that employee was stellar in every way. The best gauge I use for letters of reference is whether I'd hire the person back. If not... if I can't readily say that... then I don't write the letter.