[Ashriel]

Hello all:

Recently I have been struggling with the idea of abstinence. I have been with my boyfriend for a year and we have been intimate with each other. He is the only man I have been with.

I have been told my whole life that "sex before marriage is a sin!" "you MUST wait until marriage or else you will get pregnant, get an std, cause serious emotional pain, ruin your future marriage!"

Most of my life I have abided by this view, until being with my boyfriend. But recently I have been drawing closer to God, and the fact that me and my boyfriend have sex was something I wanted to seriously reconsider and research. So I looked it up in the Bible. I looked up every verse I could possibly find that had to do with sex, sexual immorality, and marriage.

And surprisingly, I have not found ONE word saying you must wait until marriage to have sex. Rather, there are many many verses talking about sexual immorality (Acts 15:20; 1Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7).

Generally, sexual immorality is referred to as sex with relatives, animals, those of the same sex, sex as a religious ceremony/worship, and sex with strangers/casual sex.

So I'm going to throw out this theory, and I'm sure there will be many of you screaming about it, but what if the Bible in all it's glory isn't saying you absolutely HAVE to wait until marriage, but rather that it is much MUCH better if you do? Avoid sexual immorality such as sleeping around with everyone, abusing your body in sex with people you should not be having sex with, etc?

I just know there is never a commandment stated "Wait until marriage to have sex." Just a lot of verses about avoiding sexual immorality. Keeping your body as a temple. Is having sex with someone you are deeply in love with and committed to a sin? I just don't see it in the Bible.

Also: in the Old Testament, there are commands that a woman must be a virgin before marriage. Isn't this a tradition so the father would know without a doubt his children were carrying on his lineage? Because heredity and lineage were of the utmost importance in ancient times. There is never a word saying the male must be a virgin before marriage.

I'm looking forward to hear your comments! :-)

[Ashriel]

P.S.
I believe God views sex as an intimate, binding act between two people.
I never mean to say that sex should be viewed as anything less than that.
Which is why, most definitely, the best way to go is to wait until marriage.
But if two people are going to get married, is it wrong to have sex before the official government signing of papers or the family ceremony?
Just wanting to hear people's thoughts!

[artlady]

I think when we meet the right person and we are in love ,that it is a gift from God.
I don't think a paper sanctions that.Commitment comes from the heart and a marriage is a contract made in love not law.
There is a huge leap between promiscuity and giving yourself wholly to one person.
I do not think it is a sin.

[cadillac59]

Of course there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage. People don't need a license to have sex, which is all the notion of marriage ever was anyway. It's an anachronism that belongs with all the rest of the garbage in the bible.

If you want to find moral teaching the last place to find it is in a book written by ignorant Middle Eastern sheepherders who thought the earth was flat and feared they didn't know who their true fathers were, which is why they adopted their repressive anti-sex moral code. They also thought that slavery and genocide were moral, just to show you how wacko they were.

[firmbeliever]

I realize this is the Christian board,but we seem to have similar value systems I would like to comment on this.

I think the reason why the Almighty sent the rule sex before marriage as something disliked and/or prohibited is ;

For one thing it leads to so many social problems, single parenthood- which is one of the hardest things considering the hard work it takes to earn a little money and it is all gone in an instant and we want the best for our kids.
Another thing is that many babies are abandoned whether into the social system or they are neglected while living at home with the parents because they were/are not ready for a baby or never wanted that much of a commitment.
These babies grow up to be sometimes messed up adults and what happens to them?They either destroy their lives or others or spend parts of their lives in jails,detention centres. I am not generalizing, some do survive hard family lives and come out better than some well looked after kids too.
The diseases related to promiscuity or having multiple partners, one of them being AIDs.
Abortions because many couples are ready to have a relationship but do not want the burden of a baby.

When we look at the bigger picture, casual sex does lead to a lot of problems which has far reaching consequences which I think is the reason that such a moral standard is required of the believers.

[Ashriel]

Of course there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage. People don't need a license to have sex, which is all the notion of marriage ever was anyway. It's an anachronism that belongs with all the rest of the garbage in the bible.

If you want to find moral teaching the last place to find it is in a book written by ignorant Middle Eastern sheepherders who thought the earth was flat and feared they didn't know who their true fathers were, which is why they adopted their repressive anti-sex moral code. They also thought that slavery and genocide were moral, just to show you how wacko they were.

Hi Cadillac:

I totally get what you are saying, but the majority of stuff written about sexual immorality, that a lot of Christians base their views on, is in the New Testament, which was written by fairly educated men around 46-70 AD, definitely not ignorant people. I'm not talking so much about the Old Testament, which was written by the Middle Eastern sheepherders :-)

Also, EVERYbody in that time thought the earth was flat and found it important to know who their father was. And, most everybody also thought slavery and genocide were moral. Slavery and genocide have been part of nearly every culture.
Honestly, the Old Testament does have a lot of rules and guidelines that seem odd to us, but in those ancient times, they were very progressive and a good way to keep people from making bad choices, to keep an upright society. I know that some of it seems harsh and unfair, but this was all before the atoning blood of Jesus came to make those stringent rules unnecessary.

I myself sometimes am left wondering "Why was God so cruel in those ancient times? Why did he call for a girl to be stoned simply because she was found to not be a virgin when she got married?"
I don't pretend to understand it completely, but I trust God and know ultimately He has, and had, our greatest good at heart.
It takes a leap of faith, that's for sure.
I appreciate your comment though, Cadillac!
Wishing you a beautiful day,
Ashriel

p.s. maybe I'll start a separate thread here in Christianity about the angry, violent, rule-enforcing God of the Old Testament versus the loving, compassionate one of the New Testament. I've often wondered about that. :-)

[classyT]

Ash,

Sweetie, you know as a Christian I could never advise you to do something that God said NO to. The Bible is clear as crystal on the issue. God says what he means and he means what he says.

I battled this when I was a young woman in my 20's and madly in love.( or so I thought) I wanted it to be OK. I even sought other so called believers who would tell me it was OK. I knew the ones to consult and the ones NOT to consult.. ha.

I believe and have experienced when you go outside of God's word you only harm yourself. There are many reasons not to have sex before you marry. People will give you many reasons you SHOULD have sex outside of marriage. But if you believe that God made you, knows you intimately and is only looking out for your good then you are going to have to trust Him in this matter.

It isn't the answer you wanted but according to the Bible... it is the correct one. AND.. one last thought. Obedience to the word of God always brings blessing... evidently. Disobedience always brings regret or worse.

[Alty]

Personally I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. If you're in love, aren't sleeping around, then where in the bible is that wrong?

A marriage certificate doesn't make you any more committed then you are now, it's just binds you together legally.

Of course, if you're really this worried about it, just get married. Problem solved. :)

[cadillac59]

Personally I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. If you're in love, aren't sleeping around, then where in the bible is that wrong?

A marriage certificate doesn't make you any more committed then you are now, it's just binds you together legally.

Of course, if you're really this worried about it, just get married. Problem solved. :)

Yes, and what is a "marriage" anyway? What makes it so? Must it be legally sanctioned in your jurisdiction to count? What about a civil marriage, no priest or pastor involved, do they count? Why if marriage has this important Christian meaning to it (i.e. to legitimize sex, which is all it does in this religion and others)?

It's all nonsense and crazy. Listening to what some religious nuts thought 2000 years ago and saying we have to follow it today.

[Fr_Chuck]

I have debated deleting Cadillac answers since he is misleading people greatly, He is not a christian and giving people non christian answers.

He tells you what the world believes and teaches and not what the bible teaches.

[cadillac59]

I have debated deleting Cadillac answers since he is misleading people greatly, He is not a christian and giving people non christian answers.

He tells you what the world beleives and teaches and not what the bible teaches.

Are you afraid of the possibility that some people may change their minds about what they believe?

[Alty]

Yes, and what is a "marriage" anyway? What makes it so? Must it be legally sanctioned in your jurisdiction to count? What about a civil marriage, no priest or pastor involved, do they count? Why if marriage has this important Christian meaning to it (i.e., to legitimize sex, which is all it does in this religion and others)?

It's all nonsense and crazy. Listening to what some religious nuts thought 2000 years ago and saying we have to follow it today.

I can only assume that marriage back then meant a lot more then it does now.

Nowadays people get divorced at the drop of a hat, yes, even Christians.

So, you can have multiple sex partners because you married all of them.

How is that any different then pre-marital sex? If you don't stay with the one person
Does it really matter if you had a piece of paper saying that you're legally bound to
Each other?

[classyT]

I have debated deleting Cadillac answers since he is misleading people greatly, He is not a christian and giving people non christian answers.

He tells you what the world beleives and teaches and not what the bible teaches.

Fr_Chuck,

I actually agree with you. I even suggested that if someone really wanted to answer the question and wasn't a Christian than they should at least say so up front. I was given a big fat reddie for THAT thought by an "expert" on AMHD. Lol It was just my opinion but apparently it wasn't a popular one.

[classyT]

Are you afraid of the possibility that some people may change their minds about what they believe?

Caddy,

I can only speak for myself... I'm not afraid someone will change their mind about what they believe. NOT AT ALL. I just think when someone posts a question on the Christian board and they specify they want a christian answer, that you should let them know up front that what you have to offer for an answer.. isn't "Christian" or in any way biblical.

[classyT]

I can only assume that marriage back then meant a lot more then it does now.

Nowadays people get divorced at the drop of a hat, yes, even Christians.

So, you can have multiple sex partners because you married all of them.

How is that any different then pre-marital sex? If you don't stay with the one person
does it really matter if you had a piece of paper saying that you're legally bound to
eachother?

Alty,

The God of the Bible says not to have sex before marriage. Even if we as humans don't see the importants of a piece of legal paper between couples, God apparently DOES. Divorce is another issue and there are guidelines for Christians concerning divorce too.

According to the Lord it all matters to him. I think Christians and Non Christians take it too lightly. I know I have.

[galveston]

Ashriel,

Look up all the references to "fornication".

Now look up the definition of "fornication".

You now have your answer.

[classyT]

Gal,

EXACTLY! The thing is when we have are will set on something we want... we have a tendency to want to rewrite the Bible or pull it out of context or say it has no validity because the book is so old and outdated. But God's mind still hasn't changed on the issue of sin. I have to remind myself of this too.

[Ashriel]

Ashriel,

Look up all the references to "fornication".

Now look up the definition of "fornication".

You now have your answer.

Actually, my Bible doesn't have the word "fornication" in it.
It talks a lot about "sexual immorality" instead.
I have the NIV version.

[galveston]

Actually, my Bible doesn't have the word "fornication" in it.
It talks a lot about "sexual immorality" instead.
I have the NIV version.

Too bad you are using a less reliable Bible, but fornication is certainly included under "sexual immorality".

[rnrg]

I agree with ClassyT. I believe God created intimacy to be shared between a husband and a wife. It was designed by Him to be something beautiful to share with your husband/wife. What happens if a person thinks that each boyfriend or girlfriend is "the one" and they share sex with them. It is no longer beautiful or special.

Hebrews 13:4 (NIV) says that Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

We can't go around trying to make the Bible say what we want it to just to accommodate our needs. Sexual immorality covers everything from sexual immoral thoughts to the act itself outside of marriage.

We can always depend upon God to give us the RIGHT answer if we will only ask Him and then wait. He is known for His perfect answers that line up with His Word. When in doubt, always, always ask God. Rita