[csmith78]

Hi.

I have two dogs... 2 mini daschunds (ages 4 and 12). The dogs get along great, and they are both housebroken. But now here's what's happening.
The two doxies used to sleep in bed with family, but then we stopped it. My dad was always up at night (he was disabled and could not lay flat) so the dogs adjusted fine and there was no problem. Then my dad passed away. The dogs took it really hard. The 12 year old doxie stopped eating, and they both pooped and peed all over the house. After a month or so, they finally started adjusting and getting better. We got a german sheppard puppy, and they love him and it seemed to help the depression that they were in. The exception is at night. Every night, the dogs poop and pee in the same spot. We have cleaned the spot with a steam cleaner, vinegar/water, tried blocking off the area, etc. It doesn't help. They will find other spots and/or move things to try to get to the old spot. The sheppard does not do this... just the doxies. We have changed feeding times, spent more time outside before bed... nothing works.
This is obviously a behavior problem. I feel like they are punishing us for my dad being gone, and not letting them back into bed with us. My mom is getting really stressed, and this is a hard enough time for us. She is talking about getting rid of them if they don't stop. I am at a loss here. Crating won't work, because they are older and have never ever been crated.
What do I do?!
Thanks for any and all help!

[JudyKayTee]

I think they are acting this way because there is a new dog in the house, very possibly getting attention that used to go to them.

It's a jealousy thing and if you break it before it becomes a habit it will pass.

I would make certain they are outside whenever they even think about having to bathroom. You may have to crate them at night - which will only upset them more.

[csmith78]

I think they are acting this way because there is a new dog in the house, very possibly getting attention that used to go to them.

It's a jealousy thing and if you break it before it becomes a habit it will pass.

I would make certain they are outside whenever they even think about having to bathroom. You may have to crate them at night - which will only upset them more.

They really don't act at all jealous of the new dog. They all play together, and they get more attention from us than the puppy does, because my brother takes care of the sheppard, while me and my mom are always with the doxies... except at night. I think that if we crate them, it will get worse.

[shazamataz]

I agree with Judy, sounds like the existing dogs think that this new puppy is replacing their "dad"

Give them plenty of affection, take them for walks with just the three of you, walk the puppy separate for now. Make them think they are special without neglecting the new pup.

Sometimes older dogs are very set in their ways and will not accept a new puppy. Hopefully this can be overcome with time as the pup gets less boisterous and they finally realise that he is here to stay.

Make sure you let them out for frequent toilet breaks, even staying outside with them for 15-30 minutes until they poop to try and avoid 'accidents' inside.

Do they like toys? Or any special treats?
Maybe some new toys that they only get to play with when they are with the puppy might persuade them to brighten up a bit.

You need to make them associate the new dog with happy, fun things.

EDIT - sorry we posted at the same time.

[shazamataz]

Are you sure it is both of the doxies doing this?

Have you considered puppy training pads if they are always going in the same spot?

[csmith78]

I agree with Judy, sounds like the existing dogs think that this new puppy is replacing their "dad"

Give them plenty of affection, take them for walks with just the three of you, walk the puppy separate for now. Make them think they are special without neglecting the new pup.

Sometimes older dogs are very set in their ways and will not accept a new puppy. Hopefully this can be overcome with time as the pup gets less boisterous and they finally realise that he is here to stay.

Make sure you let them out for frequent toilet breaks, even staying outside with them for 15-30 minutes until they poop to try and avoid 'accidents' inside.

Do they like toys? Or any special treats?
Maybe some new toys that they only get to play with when they are with the puppy might persuade them to brighten up a bit.

You need to make them associate the new dog with happy, fun things.

EDIT - sorry we posted at the same time.

They started this behavior before the new puppy came. So do you really think it is the new dog? The depression lightened up with the new dog... Oscar (the 12 yr old) started playing again, and eating, which was great because he lost 5 pounds when my dad died. The new dog has been great for them. It's just the pooping/peeing that has not stopped.

[csmith78]

Are you sure it is both of the doxies doing this?

Have you considered puppy training pads if they are always going in the same spot?

We have put down training pads in the hopes of saving the carpet... Oscar's response was to rip the pad apart, and then poop on it.

Oscar (the 12 year old) is the primary culprit. Oliver (the 4 year old) seems to do it after Oscar does. I think that if Oscar would stop, Oliver would, too.

[shazamataz]

Oh OK sorry, I misunderstood, did not realise it was happening before the new puppy came.

In that case yes it does sound like they are doing it because they miss your father.

Just trying to get my head around all the details..
When do they do this?
While you are at home or when you go out?

If it is only when you are not there it could be a case of separation anxiety, they think that now that dad has gone, when you leave, you are going to not come back either.

If they do it when you are home then perhaps you could switch to something like a puppy pad but more solid.
They have a new product out now that it like a patch of lawn you have inside your house.
It it used for dogs in apartments that don't go outside often.

It would not be permanent, same as with puppies you train them to the pad/lawn and then gradually move it closer to being outside.

[csmith78]

Oh ok sorry, I misunderstood, did not realise it was happening before the new puppy came.

In that case yes it does sound like they are doing it because they miss your father.

Just trying to get my head around all the details..
When do they do this?
While you are at home or when you go out?

If it is only when you are not there it could be a case of separation anxiety, they think that now that dad has gone, when you leave, you are going to not come back either.

If they do it when you are home then perhaps you could switch to something like a puppy pad but more solid.
They have a new product out now that it like a patch of lawn you have inside your house.
It it used for dogs in apartments that don't go outside often.

It would not be permanent, same as with puppies you train them to the pad/lawn and then gradually move it closer to being outside.

They only do this at night when they are left alone. When we go to work, there is not any problems. However, my brother is in and out all day, so maybe this is why they are okay during the day?
We have a night time routine... the dogs go outside, the food bowls are prepared for the morning, etc. The dogs come inside, we lock the doors, turn off the lights, and go to bed. They are in the living room/kitchen (open concept house). I have spied on them throughout the night, and it usually happens after they are alone for 1-2 hours. So we are home, but in other rooms with closed doors.
Thanks for your help!

[shazamataz]

I will post my tip for separation anxiety in case you want to try it...
It may not apply to you but it can't hurt to have a read :)

Sorry for having to post the whole article, I am currently making a website but haven't uploaded it yet .

Does your dog cry when you leave the room? Urinate only when you leave the house?
These are a few signs that your dog may be suffering from Separation Anxiety.

Some dogs do not like being left alone and some will think you are leaving them permanently and not coming back. Here are a few tips to help fix this problem.

When you leave, no matter how long for always have fresh water available. Toys are also a wonderful training tool as it will keep the dog distracted, I use kong toys stuffed with yummy food as a cure for boredom, having special toys or treats that the dog gets only when you go out are also a wonderful idea.

When training my own dogs for separation anxiety I first distract my dogs with their favourite toy and then exit my house through the front door.
I only leave for a minute or two, just long enough so that the dog does not bark or cry.
I then re-enter the house and give them praise for not crying.

Next time I go out I leave for a few more minutes, again only entering the house if the dog is not crying and giving praise.

Increase the amount of time you leave for and always come back before the dog starts crying (you will learn how long that threshold is pretty quickly)

This teaches the dog that you are going to come back and they are not being left alone forever.


Another technique is to not "baby" the dog.
Some dogs become overly attached to their owner and don't even like their owner being out of their line of sight, in this case the training needs to begin before you start going out

Start paying less attention to the dog, when he pushes for attention, don't give it to him
If he wants to be petted, make him wait.
As harsh as it sounds it is the only way to get the dog to start becoming less dependent on you.

After you have trained the dog to be less clingy you can move onto things like leaving the dog in the living room while you have a shower, or leaving him inside while you are out hanging up washing on the clothesline.

[JudyKayTee]

We have put down training pads in the hopes of saving the carpet...Oscar's response was to rip the pad apart, and then poop on it.

Oscar (the 12 year old) is the primary culprit. Oliver (the 4 year old) seems to do it after Oscar does. I think that if Oscar would stop, Oliver would, too.

I'm sorry - I know your post is serious but your line about putting the pads down and then the dog ripping the pad apart and THEN pooping on it has me in stiches!

Priceless! I love your sense of humor.